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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes PC 07-15-08City of arme D10 CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION TUESDAY, JULY 15, 2008 Minutes The Carmel Plan Commission met at 6:00 PM on July 15, 2008 in the Council Chambers of City Hall, Carmel, Indiana. The meeting opened with the Pledge of Allegiance. Members present: Leo Dierckman, Jay Dorman, Dan Dutcher, Bradford Grabow, Wayne Haney, Kevin "Woody" Rider, Rick Ripma, Carol Schleif, Steve Stromquist, Madeleine Torres, Susan Westermeier. DOCS Staff in Attendance: Director Michael Hollibaugh, City Planners Adrienne Keeling and Angie Conn. Also present: John Molitor, Legal Counsel. The minutes from the June 17, 2008 meeting were approved as submitted. John Molitor administered the Oath of Office to Bradford Grabow, Mayoral Appointment to the Plan Commission. John Molitor stated that there had been an Executive Session of the Executive Committee prior to the meeting this evening. Strategy was discussed with respect to pending litigation regarding the denial of the Holiday Inn development plan earlier this year, and the discussion was limited to that topic. John stated that any member who wishes further information may contact John directly. A Motion to Dismiss has been filed by the City on behalf of the Plan Commission and that is scheduled to be heard August 4th at 4:00 p.m. in Noblesville. Michael Hollibaugh, Director, DOCS stated that he was pleased to see all members present at the meeting this evening. Michael gave an update on Item IF Comprehensive Plan Amendment. For the past few months the Department has been working on edits to the document. Michael indicated that the final document is close to being updated with the updates that were discussed and the Plan is nearly ready to bring back to the Commission. The public hearing date will be advertised for the August 19 Plan Commission meeting. It is possible that Commission members will receive a copy by the end of this week. Adrienne Keeling added that in the interim, the Department will be working with the President of the Plan Commission on a special review committee for Comprehensive Plan Amendment. We will be working out details regarding membership and potential meeting schedule. Once the Document is ready for release, everyone will be getting hard copies. Copies will also be available to the public in the DOCS offices on the third floor of City Hall, at the public library, and the City's website in PDF format. DOCS purchased a new software program that will allow comments to be posted from the S: /P1anCommission /Minutes /2008 /PCMinutes /2008ju1y 15 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 public and any other interested parties on the website; the comments will automatically come to the department. Leo Dierckman stated that the review would be done in a special format with committee meetings in addition to the regularly scheduled Plan Commission meetings. If any Commission members are interested in serving on the committee, please let Mike, Adrienne, or Leo know. From that committee, the Document will be brought back to the full Plan Commission. Angie Conn, DOCS stated that agenda item 3H Stafford Lane, posted their public notice sign 21 days in advance of the meeting instead of 25 days. The Commission will need to vote to suspend the rules in order to hear the item. Leo asked the members for their opinion on the 25 day suspension of rules. Rick Ripma stated that 25 days means "25 days..." Angie Conn explained the circumstance. When the petitioner downloaded the application from the website, it did not have one of the required pages —the petitioner was able to put the sign up only 4 days late. Leo asked Angie if she was suggesting that this might be somehow our responsibility. Angie responded in the affirmative and said the problem has been corrected on the web page. Jay Dorman made formal motion to suspend the rules and hear item 3H Stafford Lane, seconded by Susan Westermeier, approved 11 -0. H. Public Hearings: 1H. Docket No. 08060002 ZW: West Carmel Dr. Retail (Meijer Outlot A) The applicant seeks zoning waiver approval from Section 20G.05.07.B for a reduced building height for a new facade design. The site is located at the northeast corner of Carmel Dr. Pennsylvania St. and is zoned OM/M Old Meridian District/Meijer Zone. Filed by Ken Cave of Thomas English Retail Real Estate, LLC Ken Cave of Thomas English Retail Real Estate appeared before the Commission representing the petitioner. Ken stated that in December of last year the Development Plan and ADLS were approved. In March, the petitioner realized there were some problems with the design of the building and an ADLS Amendment was filed for the building facade. The plan was not well received by the Committee. The discussion revolved around the height of the buildings, the fact that the Ordinance requires a 25 ft. minimum, and the petitioner is restricted to 26 ft. by Meijer. There is only one foot to change the elevations; therefore a waiver was discussed for the height of the building. The petitioner attended Committee on June 3r for review. The petitioner returned to Committee on July 1, 2008 regarding the new facade and was approved. At this time, the petitioner is requesting the waiver that was discussed. S: /P1anCommission /Minutes /2008 /PCMinutes /2008ju1y 15 2 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Angie Conn, DOCS, reported that all of the Department's outstanding concerns have been addressed and the Department recommends suspension of the Rules of Procedure in order to vote on this item this evening. Kevin Ryder reported for the Special Studies Committee. Kevin stated that the Committee had reviewed the plan and sent it back to the Commission with a unanimous decision for approval. Jay Dorman made formal motion to suspend the rules regarding Docket No. 08060002 ZW: West Carmel Dr. Retail (Meijer Outlot A) seconded by Carol Schleif, approved 11 -0. Susan Westermeier made formal motion to approve Docket No. 08060002 ZW: West Carmel Dr. Retail (Meijer Outlot A) seconded by Carol Schleif, APPROVED 10 in favor, none opposed, one abstaining (Grabow.) 2H. Docket No. 08050033 DP /ADLS: Stout Shoes Buildings The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for two retail/office buildings. The site is located at 13100 -13155 Old Meridian Street and is zoned OM /MU -Old Meridian District/ Mixed Use. Filed by Michael Cook of Wooden McLaughlin LLP for Old Meridian Main Properties, LLC. Michael Cook, attorney, Wooden McLaughlin appeared before the Commission representing the petitioner. Mr. Cook reviewed the location and scope of the project and indicated that the petitioner had secured several zoning variances. The variances were needed for various reasons, i.e. one building does not have an occupiable second floor which is required by the Old Meridian Ordnance; it also does not meet the height requirements that are required by City Ordnance. The southern most building —the larger of the two based on discussions with staff following the original submittal--contains 20,640 square feet, and in all areas meets the Ordnance requirements except for setback. The building will have two occupiable floors. The first floor will be retail and the second floor will be office space or residential, depending on the needs as they arise. The north building has the exterior facade shown on the view craft, it is a combination of brick and dryvit and glass. Even though the second floor is not occupiable, it gives the appearance of a two story building. Mr. Cook stated that the architecture is based upon the original Stout Shoe Store on Massachusetts Avenue, Indianapolis. The signage will be building signage, banded, 3 feet high, and is demonstrated on the drawing of the south building. The signage will be limited to 80 percent of each bay. Signs will be back lighted or gooseneck lights, and will be mounted above the sign band. The developer of this project also has control of the corner of this intersection where the veterinary clinic is now located; that will be phase two of this project. The veterinary clinic is proposed to be relocated and the current building will be demolished within 6 months of the relocation. Commission members have a copy of the detailed landscape plan. It shows proposed parallel parking along Old Meridian street at the request of the staff. The landscape plan also changes somewhat the materials listed in the information packets. The 10 -foot multi -use path is also shown. The corner building proposed as part of phase 2 is not before the Commission this evening. However, this building has caused some curiosity and is shown conceptually on the renderings. The building will be 3 S: /P1anCommission /Minutes /2008 /PCMinutes /2008ju1y 15 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 stories and will match the architectural standards in the first phase. We cannot totally commit to these renderings, but feel it is a good representation. The building does show a driveway access typical of a branch bank, and that raises issues that will have to be discussed further. Mr. Cook reviewed a visual regarding the two buildings. He stated that the reason for not having 2 occupiable floors in both buildings is because of the configuration of the site and its limitations. Even though the ordinance requirements for parking can be met, for purposes of lending and the reality of occupying for multiuse purpose for three buildings, there would not be enough parking to accommodate all floors. The next best thing was to try to give the appearance of a multi -story building. Mike Cook introduced Brad Stout, developer, Bob McGill, architect of the project, and Dick Hoover, project engineer. Angie Conn, DOCS there are a few outstanding issues and the Department recommends that this be sent to the August 5 Special Studies Committee. Susan Westermeier asked why the architecture appears to be different on the buildings. Bob McGill responded that the attempt was to place in close proximity buildings that create an urban environment that recreates two buildings in an existing urban area in downtown Indianapolis. We felt that this was consistent with the dictates of the Old Meridian Plan. We feel this is a more active environment and makes it feel as if the buildings had been built over time. Jay Dorman stated that he is concerned regarding the distance between the two buildings, given the height, i.e., shadows, lighting, etc. Also, concerning the south elevation rendering, you may want to be more specific regarding the outdoor dining; it currently shows only 3 tables, no awnings. Mr. Cook responded that current ordinance requires that you have 70% of the frontage consumed with building. One of the variances we had to get was regarding that. Carol Schleif discussed parking. She was hoping for more greenery and more islands between 10 parking spaces, however, the spaces are all needed for phase 2. She asked about the south elevation, the brown building. There is a huge wall there with no openings. Mr. Cook responded that this is storage area. Carol asked to see more brick pattern, faux windows, etc. to break up the space. Docket No. 08050033 DP /ADLS Stout Shoes Buildings was forwarded to the August 5, 2008 Special Studies meeting for further review. 3H. Docket No. 08050024 PP Amend: Stafford Lane The applicant seeks primary plat amendment approval for 53 lots on 30 acres. The site is located along 146th St., west of Gray Rd., and is zoned R1/Residence ROSO. Filed by Eric Batt of Schneider Engineering for The Drees Company. Steve Hardin, attorney, Baker and Daniels appeared before the Commission representing the petitioner. Also in attendance: John Waits, Drees Company, and Eric Batt, Schneider Engineering. The primary plat for the project was approved a little over 2 years ago and at that time, there was some concern that there was an acre parcel of land in the middle of the project site. The developer had been encouraged by the City to obtain the parcel and bring it in to the development. This has now occurred and the developer is requesting a primary plat amendment. S: /P1anCommission /Minutes /2008 /PCMinutes /2008ju1y 15 4 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Members of the public were invited to speak in favor of the petition; no one appeared. Members of the public were invited to speak in opposition to the petition; the following appeared: Organized Remonstrance Unfavorable: Tom Transik, Oak Brook Subdivison, property owner adjacent to the proposed development. His concerns are that there is a not adequate acceleration/deceleration lanes in/out of the Subdivision and does not meet either state or township requirements. Mr. Transik stated that just recently a 16 year old boy was killed just a short distance away. Mr. Transik said the Commission needs to take a second look at this project. In addition, Mr. Transik has heard that there is a proposal to tap into his private sewer line and this is something he will not agree to. For these two reasons, Mr. Transik asked the Commission to revisit the plans. John Courtney 816 Wedgewood Lane, off of Gray Road. Mr. Courtney stated that he has not seen any plans where this development is planned, although he is aware that it enters off of 146 street. Mr. Courtney lives south of Oak Brook in Wedgwood and has no idea if this development is extending north of his property line. For people who have been notified that this is happening, it would be appropriate to be told where it is going to be. Mr. Courtney asked that the developers share the information with him he would like to see something solid. Steve Hardin gave an overview of the project. The process to develop this property began in January 2006 for plat approval. This was submitted by the Drees Company. The entrance will be off of 146 street, just off Gray Road. Mr. Hardin reviewed on a visual the location of the property. At that time the acceleration/deceleration lanes were discussed; the road is under County jurisdiction. The County is fine with the plat and the amendment. The change will make a better project. Steve Hardin took a moment to speak with Eric Batt, and responded that there is no private sewer that is planned to be connected. This development would be connected to the public sewer. Leo Dierckman asked if this property will remain the same—single-family residential. Steve Hardin responded that the current submission shows how the project will look. Steve reviewed a visual showing the path and driveway system. Angie Conn, stated that the petitioner has addressed all of the Department's comments. The Engineering Dept. has no issues with this project and they will review the construction documents at the secondary plat phase. The Highway Dept. is satisfied with the plat. At this time, the Department is recommending that the Commission suspend its Rules of Procedure and vote to approve this item conditioned upon final landscape plan approval by the City Forester. Tom Transik asked to speak again. Leo explained the Rules of Procedure, but stated if he was patient he would be heard again. S: /P1anCommission /Minutes /2008 /PCMinutes /2008ju1y 15 5 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Wayne Haney stated this it is a hazardous area. Mr. Haney asked if there was anything the County Highway Dept. could do to ease the situation, since residents pull out into this very busy stream of traffic. Also, are there plans for development to the east of this project? Steve Hardin replied that to his knowledge, no development was planned to the east. Leo Dierckman asked Mr. Transik to review his concern regarding the sewer line. Mr. Transik stated that he has a deed that has deeded this sewer over to him and this was discussed with Drees homes. Mr. Transik presented documentation to this effect and stated that he had paid for the sewer. Mr. Transik also presented a letter from the County dated February 2008 signed by David Lucas, stating that there needs to be 150 deceleration lane with a 100 -foot taper and a 100 -foot acceleration taper and if these minim cannot be achieved, the Highway Department will not support an entrance at this location. Dan Dutcher asked for clarification from either Staff or Mr. Molitor. Mr. Dutcher understood that the Primary Plat for this development was approved two years ago, and now a new petitioner is in front of the group to add a 1 -acre parcel that has been acquired. Dan Dutcher said the proposal looks like a significant improvement and from his perspective, adds an additional piece to an already approved development, regardless of whether or not the requisite sewer issues were resolved as they should have been two years ago. Leo Dierckman commented that this is a limited scope of the project that the Commission is reviewing this evening. Leo asked John Molitor to give his opinion on the responsibilities of the Commission regarding the matter of the sewer. John Molitor stated that it is the responsibility of the Commission to be assured that water and sewer were going to be provided to this development and unless staff tells him differently, he will assume the City is prepared to provide water and sewer service to the development. John further stated that if the Commission decided to approve this item this evening, it will have to suspend its Rules of Procedure. Angie Conn reported that Engineering stated they had no issues with the plat at this time and will delve into it deeper at the Secondary Plat phase. Angie said she would check into the letter written in February, although she has a letter dated July l O r indicating that all of their concerns were addressed. Jay Dorman stated that although he appreciates Dan Dutcher's comments, he is skeptical. Jay said he understands that the petitioner wants to have the project approved, but indicated that more time should be taken so that all issues are resolved. Jay Dorman asked that this item be sent back to Committee until clarification can be made on the issues discussed here tonight. Jay also said he would like the letter received by Mr. Transik to be investigated. Carol Scheilf asked that this be sent back to Committee. Kevin Rider asked if there was a curb cut on 146 street. Eric Batt, Schneider Corporation, responded that the opening in the median is being eliminated due to County. Steve Hardin stated that the letter which Mr. Transik received in February was at a time when Drees was sitting down with the County talking about the new layout. They have worked through the issues. Steve S: /P1anCommission /Minutes /2008 /PCMinutes /2008july 15 6 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Hardin stressed that the City has received a letter from Dave Lucus stating that he approves the project. Also, regarding the sanitation sewer issue, this was worked out with Engineering and after working through the easement acquisition, it has been resolved. Carol Scheilf asked if this item could be approved at the Committee level if it is returned to Committee. John Molitor responded that approval at the Committee level would require a motion of the Plan Commission to authorize the Committee to take action. Jay Dorman made formal motion to forward Docket No. 08050024 PP Amend, Stafford Lane to the Subdivision Committee meeting on August 5 however, in the event that there is not a quorum, this item will come back to the Plan Commission. At that meeting, water and sewer access is to be confirmed as well as confirmation that traffic requirements on 146 street have been met. Carol Schleif seconded the motion; approved 10 -1 (Haney.) 4H. Docket No. 08050022 DP /ADLS: KFC/Taco Bell (West Carmel Center, Block A, Lot 3) The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for a fast food restaurant. The site is located at 10575 N Michigan Rd. and is zoned B-3/Business within the US 421 Overlay. Filed by Charlie Frankenberger of Nelson Frankenberger for Yum Brands, Inc. Charlie Frankenberger, attorney, Nelson Frankenberger appeared before the Commission representing the petitioner. Also in attendance: Joe Boyle of Yum Brands, Inc. The petitioner is seeking approval to allow redevelopment of a 1.2 acre site now occupied by a vacant Ritters Frozen Custard building. Charlie reviewed an aerial photograph, outlining the location. Variances were obtained from the BZA on June 23 Charlie showed a visual depicting the site, private access drives, Michigan Road, and the circulation of the drive -thru area, preview board, menu board locations, and monument sign. The monument sign is located within the drainage easement and will require a Consent to Encroach by the County Surveyor's Office. Greg Hoyes of Hamilton County Surveyor's Office has stated that he does not support the sign being within the easement and the petitioner will relocate the sign to an area north of the easement. Charlie began a review of the building using multiple visuals. Most EFIS has been eliminated and the primary area of the building is now brick. The preview board will be located in the drive -thru area before the menu board and will be on the east side of the building and therefore shielded from the Michigan Road corridor view by the building. Charlie stated that due to the fact that this is both a Kentucky Fried Chicken and Taco Bell property, it was challenging to get all items on the menu board, however the menu board does reflect the size and height reductions requested by the Department. The landscape plan has been reviewed and accepted by the Urban Forester. Members of the public were invited to speak in favor of the petition; no one appeared. Members of the public were invited to speak in opposition to the petition; the following appeared: S: /P1anCommission /Minutes /2008 /PCMinutes /2008ju1y 15 7 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Organized Remonstrance Unfavorable: Brian Shapiro, 4610 Woodhaven Drive, Zionsville. Mr. Shapiro stated he is in favor of the project and it is a correct use of the property. However, there are many things—architectural and landscape —that are missing and asked why the architect was not present. The building appears to be just a rectangular building. The KFC on Rangeline Road is much more appealing and would fit within the architectural standards of Michigan Road. One example is that the building does not have any dormers, the facade is not broken and needs to be more articulated; Mr. Shapiro is concerned about the lack of architecture. Brian stated that the back of the building is also the front of the building to the strip center in the back. Brian Shapiro also asked why there is no roof on the trash dumpster. Charlie Frankenberger responded that he was not aware of Mr. Shapiro's objections or concerns until this evening. The building as proposed complies with all of the architectural requirements of the Michigan Road Overlay. The building is in keeping and in many respects exceeds the architecture of buildings within the area. Angie Conn reported that at the time, the Department recommends that this item be sent to the August 5 t Special Studies Committee meeting; however, if the Commission is comfortable with the proposal, they could suspend the Rules of Procedure and vote on this item this evening. Brad Grabow said he would echo the comments made regarding the frontage on Michigan Road and the service door facing the west. The face of the building and high traffic volume on Michigan Road represents a challenge because there are three street sides to this building. Mr. Grabow would like to see a more appealing facade on the high traffic side. Rick Ripma, asked how the signs would be accessed to make changes to the menu board items. Joe Boyle, Engineer, Yum Brands, Akron, Ohio said he believes there are clips on the bottom of the menu board that pull up on the front to change items and prices. Rick stated he would like to have the back bricked. Rick also said that there is a lot of work needed on the building and suggested that better drawings be brought to the Special Studies Committee. Jay Dorman requested to see the visual of the site plan. Jay had questions regarding the flow of drive -thru traffic. A discussion ensued on traffic flow. Charlie Frankenberger and Joe Boyle reviewed the traffic flow on the visual. Sue Westermeier asked why all the variances were necessary. Charlie Frankenberger's response: The BZA concluded that the stacking for the drive -thru and parking was sufficient after looking at the circulation. Sue asked that when this item comes to Committee, please have more information available on the variances. Carol Schleif commented that the continuous facades could accommodate faux windows, etc. Walgreens S: /P1anCommission /Minutes /2008 /PCMinutes /2008ju1y 15 8 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 is a good example of what can be done with a roof. There are opportunities with the architecture. Dan Dutcher asked about the bike parking and where it is located. Joe Boyle said there is a sidewalk that goes north and south and the sidewalk goes along the south side of the building; access will be provided that comes across the parking lot and bike parking will be provided. Rick Ripma asked the Department to review how many cars could be stacked at the Burger King that was previously approved. In response to Carol Schleif s question regarding the location of the mechanical units, Joe Boyle said they will be located on the roof and screened. Wayne Haney stated they may want to look at situating the building in a different direction, which he showed on the visual. He suggested they may want to plot it out —they would get a much deeper stacking area. Docket No. 08050022 DP /ADLS, KFC/Taco Bell West Carmel Center, Blk A, Lot 3 was referred to Special Studies Committee for further review on August 5, 2008. 5H. TABLED TO AUGUST 19: Docket No. 08050034 Z: Meadows Three PUD The applicant seeks approval to rezone 7± acres to PUD/Planned Unit Development for a dog park, chapel, and single family homes. The site is located at 212 W 136th St. (on the Monon Trail) and is zoned R- 1/Residence, partially within the US 31 Overlay. Filed by Ron Bussell of Meadows Three, LLC. 6H. Docket No. 08060009 Z: 116th Guilford Rezone The applicant seeks to approval to rezone approximately 9.5 acres from the I- 1/Industrial zoning classification to PUD/Planned Unit Development. The site is located at the northeast corner of 116th St Guilford Rd. Filed by the Carmel Department of Community Services, on behalf of the Carmel Plan Commission. 7H. Docket No. 08060010 OA: Park Place PUD Ordinance Amendment The applicant seeks approval to amend Ordinance Z- 500 -06: Park Place Planned Unit Development in order to include 2 parcels at the northeast corner of 116th St Guilford Rd. and to amend/add text to regulate the newly added parcels to this development. The subject parcels are zoned PUD I -1. Filed by the Department of Community Services, on behalf of the Carmel Plan Commission. NOTE: Items 6H and 7H were heard together. Michael Hollibaugh, Director, Department of Community Services, City of Carmel appeared before the Commission representing the applicant. The Department is petitioning to rezone and amend the ordinance —this is an attempt to resolve a long runnin initiative. The City originally proposed to rezone the Duke Energy property to residential. The origin of the petition dates back to 2007 At the time the property was up for sale, it was the intent of the City to manage potential commercial development, which S: /P1anCommission /Minutes /2008 /PCMinutes /2008ju1y 15 9 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 meant capping the array of uses available in the I -1 Industrial Zone and trying to confine the retail uses existing today west of Guilford. The current proposal amends the Park Place PUD. The Department is attempting to craft a solution that is acceptable to the goals of the City which allowed for an array of office uses while being respectful of the residential which is across the street. The previous proposal by the City to balance growth management goals with the commercial development goals of the property owner ultimately relied on commitments that would be required of the landowner and an attempt to modify uses. The issue now is what uses will be allowed on the site. We also have proposals that would try to add uses to exiting zone districts, which was not a workable solution, but we are attempting to conclude this by a PUD amendment that will allow us to tailor the uses. Members of the public were invited to speak in favor of the petition; no one appeared. Members of the public were invited to speak in opposition to the petition; the following appeared: General Comments Unfavorable. William Wendling, attorney, Campbell, Kyle and Proffit, 11595 North Meridian Street, Carmel, appeared before the Commission representing the property owner, Duke Energy. Mr. Wendling was accompanied by John Shidler, Counsel for Duke Energy and Belinda Oswald who is the transaction manager. They have been both involved in the process. The position of Duke Energy is that they want to work with the City and accommodate the Plan Commission and the City's desire to eliminate some of the uses that would be allowed in the I- I District. Mr. Wendling distributed a list of what had been presented to the City previously. As you look at the pages, those highlighted in red are the ones we would voluntarily eliminate from possible uses in the I -1 classification. Bill Wendling spoke about the property and its uses. The property has been used as a regional and administrative office for PSI, Cinergy and now Duke for almost 28 years. When the property was developed, there wasn't anything around the area. However, over the years, developers have built residential areas knowing that this was an I -1 area. To the west, developers needed special permission to build retail -use buildings. We have retail operation uses in the I -1 classification. It now appears that the City has decided there are enough retail operations in the area. As a result, they are now coming before you asking you to recommend to the City an Ordinance that would prohibit Duke Energy property for retail. The property is for sale; it is Duke Energy property and we are ready to sell it. There will continue to be a sub station and we want to carve out 2.5 3 acres since that will not be moving. It is distressing to have the City come and say "We don't want to have too much retail along this corridor" at the expense of Duke. It has an economic affect on the property value. No one has explained why Duke has been singled out to say we are going to limit the use of the property you have. In an attempt to be good neighbors because we are invested in this community, when the community needs things they talk to Duke Energy. We are willing to eliminate from the I -1 the things we think the City would find objectionable. We object to the request that this be turned into a PUD. We would still like to work with the City to eliminate those uses. We appreciate the fact that Mike Hollibaugh has been working with us to help. At this time we must take a stronger stance and say the PUD elimination of the uses that we presently have is economical for the property. Michael Hollibaugh commented that obviously, the City respects Duke Energy and things have changed a lot over time. As Mr. Wendling stated, when the property was first developed there was not much S: /P1anCommission /Minutes /2008 /PCMinutes /2008ju1y 15 10 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 around, which is why we are asking for the PUD now. Too much retail in the area is not a good thing for the City. The current retail to the west of the site is not taking off as expected. This not a response to Duke's bottom line, but rather growth management of the City. The City feels this is an appropriate resolution. Angie Conn: The Department is recommending that this be sent to the August 5 Subdivision Committee meeting. Jay Dorman stated that Bill Wendling's proposal to limit uses is absolutely reasonable and shows good faith effort to move toward the City's position, but also not have carte blanch use of the property. Jay stated that it should be moved on to the Council and have some sunsets on it for perhaps a year, it gives them a chance to sell the property, perhaps to a buyer who would use it as a data center. Rick Ripma stated he is not in favor of the City taking over these types of projects. Duke is the land owner and they have rights also. They have owned it for 25 years. Even though the City has decided that there is enough retail, the market may demand more retail there, then more retail should be OK there and it is zoned that way. Rick Ripma was not in favor of changing the zoning in any other way. Dan Dutcher stated that he had sat through 2 committee meetings on this and understands less now. His perspective: 1. You have a piece of property with a unique use that is surrounded by conflicting uses. 2. With respect to Duke, they want to sell the property and they have a prospective buyer, so what extent we need to keep Duke happy needs to be tempered by the fact they are selling the property. The City should reasonably expect to work with an honest broker to try to present to us a zoning classification that would best serve the City while respecting the property owner's rights, and while moving us forward in terms of the best land use for what is becoming a transition kind of area. Dan expressed surprise by what he has heard from the property owners, and that the work that has been done over the past two months is for naught. Dan Dutcher felt that they were heading to a compromise. If this goes back to Sub Committee again, he will look for a proposed brokered deal ahead of time, so not to go through round 3 with no progress. Carol Schleif also stated surprise. The big variable is that two potential buyers have come in and we heard little on what they are proposing. She would be willing to wait until they negotiate a deal and if we had purchase and acceptable use. We were not told anything about the use. When it comes back it needs to be definitive. Leo Dierckman stated that he has looked at the list from Duke and it appears that there are only 6 or 7 items that seemed to raise concerns of appropriateness for that location. It does seem like we are closer to resolution. Madeline Torres asked about the list that Duke presented and what exactly is the difference? Carol Schleif asked what the colors indicated... The yellow highlight is what I -1 permits, red indicates what Duke is happy to exclude and we would enter into a legal document that would exclude those uses. We would also be open to discussion on others, but realistically it is the retail which is the sticking point. S: /P1anCommission /Minutes /2008 /PCMinutes /2008ju1y 15 11 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Leo suggested this item be sent back to Subdivision Committee one more time and maybe approaching it with the PUD concept would help. Rick Ripma commented that he is not trying to cater to Duke Energy, but believes in property rights. Mr. Ripma went on to say that even if they are selling the property, they still have property rights. They have been there 25 years in this location, and just because everyone moves in around them, and then everyone wanted to change them —Duke did not change. Michael Hollibaugh stated that everything we do affects people's property rights, i.e. Overlay Zones, architectural standards, etc. What we are attempting to do is balance the property rights of Duke with the surrounding area. We are not trying to limit their property use list, they still have a lot of commercial use and we feel it is very respectful of the area and the context of the area. It makes sense from a growth management standpoint and we are not trying to render their property useless. Rick stated that the City is trying to reduce what they can do with their property. Michael Hollibaugh said that this is correct, but we are not rendering it useless. It is the goal to reduce what they can do. If the Commission wants to add uses, we cannot say no to that, but we feel we are doing what makes the most sense for the community. Docket No. 07010008 Z, 110 Guilford Rezone and Docket No. 08060009 Z, 116` Guilford Rezone were forwarded to the Subdivision Committee for further review on August 5. I. Old Business I1. Docket No. 08060001 OA: Monon and Main PUD Amendment The applicant seeks approval to amend Ordinance Z- 462 -04 Monon and Main PUD for the purpose of allowing non residential uses on upper floors in the Primary Area. The site is located at the intersection of Main Street P Avenue NW and zoned PUD. Filed by the Department of Community Services, on behalf of the Carmel Plan Commission. Adrienne Keeling appeared before the Commission representing the applicant. Last month a proposal was submitted to the Plan Commission to amend the Monon and Main PUD. The purpose is to allow retail in the primary area along Main Street where it is currently not allowed on the upper floors and garages. There were suggestions made by the Plan Commission regarding the amendment. One was to suggest that the two -car garages appear from the exterior to remain garages. The other suggestion was that some of the more impractical suggestions for uses be eliminated from the PUD. Adrienne presented a visual showing the Monon and Main area. Currently, most of the town homes are complete and at this time several variances have been approved to allow retail uses in the upper floors and the garages. The lots shown in pink on the visual are the units that have been granted variances; the ones illustrated in yellow are either pending or waiting to see status of this proposal. Adrienne Keeling asked that the Commission look at page 5 of the PUD; we strengthen the language regarding the garage suggestion as well as starting on page 17, you will see uses that remain as acceptable. S: /P1anCommission /Minutes /2008 /PCMinutes /2008ju1y 15 12 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 We are asking your favorable recommendation to the City Council on the proposal. Carol Schleif reported for the Subdivision Committee and stated that Adrienne had presented it very well. The Committee was quite comfortable with the uses. Steve Stromquist made formal motion to approve Docket No. 08060001 OA/Monon and Main PUD Amendment with a favorable recommendation to the City Council, seconded by Kevin "Woody" Rider and approved 11 -0. Leo Dierckman took a moment to thank Kevin Heber for his service to the Plan Commission. Kevin was insightful, particularly with bike trails. We appreciate his time and effort and wish him the best. There was no further business to come before the Commission; the meeting adjourned at 8:15 PM. Leo Dierckman, President Lisa Stewart, Secretary pro -tem S: /P1anCommission /Minutes /2008 /PCMinutes /2008ju1y 15 13 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417