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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes SpecStdy 08-05-08of CA �VNONE y�A C i t y RTOMORROW o /NDIMAN CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION SPECIAL STUDIES COMMITTEE TUESDAY, AUGUST 5, 2008 Minutes The Special Studies Committee of the Carmel Plan Commission met at 6:00 PM on Tuesday, August 5, 2008 in the Caucus Rooms of City Hall. Members present: Kevin "Woody" Rider, Rick Ripma, Sue Westermeier. DOCS Staff Present: Rachel Boone; Christine Barton Holmes The Special Studies Committee considered the following items: 1. Docket No. 08070019 ADLS Amend: North Meridian Medical Pavilion Signage The applicant seeks approval for a new Center Identification Ground sign. The site is located at 12188 N. Meridian St. and is zoned B -6. Filed by Paul Reis of Bose McKinney and Evans. Paul Reis appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. Also in attendance: Dave Campbell, Lauth Property Group. The petitioner is requesting a new Center Identification Ground Sign on Illinois Street. The petitioner has been through BZA approval and Plan Commission regarding amending the commitments to the neighborhood to the west. This proposal is the final stage for the sign and landscape plan. The sign rendition is the same as approved by Plan Commission in connection with the commitment amendment. Department Report, Rachel Boone: The BZA granted a variance for the number of signs on site. The proposed ground sign is for four tenants; the sign is internally illuminated. The Department has no issues with the sign. Wood Rider asked if the landscaping would be visible. The petitioner responded that the landscaping would be low -cover plant material and would therefore be visible. Susan Westermeier asked whether or not the colors were approved. The petitioner stated that the colors have been approved and they match the colors of the existing building. S: /P1anCommis Sion/ Minutes /SpecialStudies /PC -SS /2008 /aug05 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Sue Westermeier made formal motion to approve Docket No. 08070019 ADLS Amend, North Meridian Medical Pavilion Signage as presented, subject to issuance of a sign permit for sign installation, seconded by "Woody" Rider, Approved 3 -0. 2 -4. Docket No. 08070025 ADLS Amend: Clay Terrace Wallscapes, Paseos Signage Docket No. 08070026 ADLS Amend: Clay Terrace Wallscapes, south wall of Whole Foods Docket No. 08070027 ADLS Amend: Clay Terrace Wallscapes, east wall facing US 31 The applicant seeks approval for wallscape signs/banners between the paseos, on the south wall of the Whole Foods Building and an east wall facing US 31. The site is located at 14300 Clay Terrace Blvd. and is zoned PUD. Filed by Shawn Smith of Site Enhancement Services. Shawn Smith, Site Enhancements Services appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. Also in attendance: Barbara Schick, General Manager of Clay Terrace Center; Kelly Mikesell, Assistant Vice President, Simon Property Group. The applicant is seeking Exterior Wall Signs Wallscapes) on the south wall of Whole Foods and on certain buildings between the paseos (walkways.) The applicant is also seeking a wall sign on the building facing US 31; this sign would require a variance. The wallscapes are viewed as decorative pieces--decorative advertising, decorative art. The materials were shown to the Committee. Dept. Report, Rachel Boone: The Department feels that the wallscapes could be a good addition to Clay Terrace if done well. The proposal may be too much, too large, too many. What the petitioner is proposing at 60 square feet could probably work, however it should be brought lower to the pedestrian level. The PUD Ordinance does not include wallscapes as part of the sign package. The best way to approve the signs as they come through is to handle them as temporary sign permit/banner and would be approved by the Dept. Rachel commented that the landscape signs do not fit very well and portrait would be better everyone other one—so that it does not look so cluttered. It is written in the PUD that signage facing US 31 is not permitted on any of the buildings and a variance would be required. Committee Comments: Susan Westermeier asked how many of the proposed signs would actually be permitted. The entire sign package is over- whelming —there are so many! Banners were just approved for this location. At what point is it "just too many If all of the signs were installed, it would look awful! Rachel Boone responded that essentially, the Dept will determine how many they can have. Any additional, new signage requires Committee review and approval. Sue Westermeier said she likes the idea of temporary signs. Kelly Mikesell explained that the height of the wallscape signs is a critical factor and geared toward people approaching the paseo or building from a distance—it is not meant for pedestrians standing directly in front of it; the placement also eliminates vandalism and the tear factor. The S: /P1anCommission/ Minutes /SpecialStudies /PC -SS /2008 /aug05 2 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 petitioner was agreeable to permitting each time a sign is changed but emphasized the need to move very quickly. Woody Rider commented that the smaller signs were definitely clutter and looked like posters; Woody said he would consider the larger signs and said it could be construed as art. Woody asked the petitioner to consider a sign for the community Carmelfest in particular. Woody also recalled the issue over the Victoria's Secret windows last year and said he definitely did not want to go through that again. Kelly Mikesell said that the buildings are Simon Property Group and they have control over those; the window displays are another matter. Kelly agreed to a sign for Carmelfest." Rick Ripma asked how high the signs where hung from the bottom up. Rick said he also favors the larger signs. Rick stated that he does not like signs facing US 31; Rick would like a commitment from the petitioner that they will not even apply for signs facing eastUS 31. Would the neighborhood to the west see the big sign? Shawn Smith said the signs would be hung 6 feet from the bottom up. Barbara Schick stated that the residents to the west would not see the large wall sign because of the retaining wall, the fence, and the trees. Rick Ripma noted that the fence is not being maintained. Barbara Schick responded that the fence will be re- painted next year. Sue Westermeier commented that the signs look like art as long as they are colorful and large; Sue was not in favor of store sales being advertised but would like a commitment from the petitioner that some part of the board would be used for community events such as CarmelFest. Woody Rider was in favor of limiting the writing on the signs, otherwise they would look like a billboard. Kelly Mikesell responded that they issue creative standards on their signs, 7 words or less; if it is more than that, it is hard to read and becomes clutter. Kelly said she was willing to eliminate the sign over the vending machine and the one in the middle unit of the Victoria Secret sign. Kelly agreed to commit to "CarmelFest" signage during the month of June; the City would have to do the artwork and provide the information electronically. Sue Westermeier made formal motion to approve Docket No. 08070025 ADLS Amend, Clay Terrace Wallscapes and Docket No. 08070026 ADLS Amend, Clay Terrace Wallscapes, south wall of Whole Foods, subject to the following: 1) every new sign installed must come through the Dept. for temporary sign permit approval; 2) the Dept will expedite the sign permit approval process for each new sign; 3) the sign shown above the vending machine shown on page 3 will be deleted; 4) signs as shown on page 5 of the drawings will remain; 5) the sign shown on page 7 of the drawings will be deleted; 6) the sign shown on page 9 will eliminate the middle sign; 7) the sign shown on page 11 on the wall in the back parking lot will be allowed and S: /P1anCommission/ Minutes /SpecialStudies /PC -SS /2008 /aug05 3 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 required to pay a one -time sign permit fee. Each time the sign is changed, a sign permit fee and a change -out fee will need to be paid in order for the temporary permit to be issued. The sign will display "Carmelfest" each year from June 1S to and including July 4 th with no fee to the City. The motion was seconded by Woody Rider and APPROVED 3 -0. Sue Westermeier made formal motion to deny Docket No. 08070027 ADLS Amend, Clay Terrace Wallscapes, east wall facing US 31, seconded by Woody Rider, approved 3 -0. 5. Docket No. 08070015 ADLS Amend: Glass Chimney Deeter's The applicant seeks design approval of a building addition and minor exterior modifications. The site is located at 12901 Old Meridian St. The site is zoned Old Meridian District/ Mixed Use. Filed by Don Fisher of Insight Engineering for The Glass Chimney Real Estate, LLC. Don Fisher, Insight Engineering appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. Also in attendance: Tom Taggart, owner. The petitioner is proposing an addition and remodeling to the existing building. The gable in the middle has been removed, roof added for the addition, awning added over the deck and handicap ramp; a deck and seating are being added in the back —there is currently a deck to the front. The parking lot will be re- striped and sealed. The bar and seating area behind the existing house and outdoor seating deck with handicap ramp will be added. The south end of the building will be squared off and modifications made to existing restrooms for Deeter's and to also provide ADA accessibility. Two new restrooms are being added. The ramp to the front will be curved to access the door to the bar area. The existing door in the front will be changed to a window. The modifications will add more space to Deeter's, a little less to the Glass Chimney. A stacked, stone column is planned for the back, similar to the ones in the front —the wall sconces in the front will be replaced. Christine Barton Holmes, Dept Report: The Dept has worked with the petitioner and determined that no variances are needed. Outstanding issues: Petitioner is to work with the Urban Forester on landscaping and plant species; petitioner is also to work with the Dept regarding signage. The Dept is recommending approval this evening, conditioned upon Scott Brewer's final approval. The signage will be reviewed at a later date upon submission. The committee members were in favor of the proposed changes and had only positive comments. Woody Rider confirmed that the addition to the front will not be flat but will come out from the building at an angle. Woody Rider made formal motion to approve Docket No. 08070015 ADLS Amend, Glass Chimney Deeter's, subject to City Urban Forester approval, seconded by Sue Westermeier, APPROVED 4 -0. 6. Docket No. 08040008 ADLS Amend: Circle K/Shell The applicant seeks approval for a building addition/remodel and new canopy. The site is located at 1230 S Rangeline Rd. It is zoned 13-3 /13usiness within the Carmel Dr Rangeline Rd Overlay. Filed by Don Fisher of Insight Engineering, Inc. S: /P1anCommission/ Minutes /SpecialStudies /PC -SS /2008 /aug05 4 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 TABLED to October 7, 2008 without discussion. 7. Docket No. 08050033 DP /ADLS: Stout Shoes Buildings The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for two retail/office buildings. The site is located at 13100 -13155 Old Meridian Street and is zoned Old Meridian District/ Mixed Use. Filed by Mike Cook of Wooden McLaughlin LLP for Old Meridian Main Properties, LLC. Mike Cook, attorney, Wooden McLaughlin appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. Also in attendance: Bob McGill, architect; Dick Hoover, engineer; Brad Stout, property owner. Mike Cook gave a brief history of the development. The development has gone through TAC review, and Plan Commission, and has also acquired variances through BZA. One item for discussion is the area between the two buildings —the walls face each other —there are windows across the top of the south building on the second floor and windows on both the east and west end. The building faces another building-20 feet away —has three windows and shows outdoor seating if the area user is a restaurant. Regarding the landscape plan —there are street trees and parallel parking along Old Meridian. There is an elevation differential from the north to south end to the corner. At the north end, the sidewalk and the street are the same elevation; at the south end, the elevation increase is gradual differential until 2 1/2 -3 feet to the corner at 4'/2 feet. The landscaping proposed for the upper area will include tree grates for walking across. There is not a lot of room for landscaping by the time we get in the parking, the strip of land adjacent, and the multi -use path. The trees will be put on a higher level and street trees in the island; the buildings are pulled close to the street —the landscape island will break up the row of parking. The petitioner will be meeting with Scott Brewer, Urban Forester. There are existing trees on site and a substantial amount of site vision that must be done. The largest concentration of existing trees is within the building pad area and will be removed. It is difficult to save trees when adding two to four feet of fill. When the animal clinic can vacate, the building will be demolished in six months. The existing Stout's will be demolished and replaced by Building 1. The other place there are trees is the area of the retention pond. Architecture: The walls will be faced with masonry, brick and stone, and in between —metal railing. The petitioner will add additional brick and eliminate the dryvit on the north elevation. No free standing signage has been proposed at this time other than incidental or directional signage. As a part of the proposal, there is a 3 -foot high sign band on both buildings; the identification signage will be included in this band. The band will be either backlit or gooseneck lights. The proposal also includes logos. Dick Hoover said there is a new lighting plan that shows everything extending to the boundaries with standard light fixtures to be used along the street. The Department will review and critique the lighting plan. The Dept has raised an issue regarding the status of the Dept of Engineering. At S: /P1anCommission/ Minutes /SpecialStudies /PC -SS /2008 /aug05 5 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 this time, all comments have been addressed where possible. The petitioner owes the Dept a new set of plans and copies of all comment letters. The City Engineer is to make a determination whether or not the outlet point for the pond is adequate; the petitioner will continue to work with the Engineering Dept. Dept Report, Christine Barton Holmes: The petitioner has resolved most of the outstanding issues, except for a few items on- going. The Dept has worked extensively with the petitioner regarding the design of the building, from the initial submittal, through the BZA process, and back to Committee. At this time, the Department is suggesting that the petitioner continue to work with the Urban Forester and Engineering. One suggestion regarding the low parking area is the use of grass /concrete pavers along the entire length of the parallel parking. The Dept recommends favorable consideration and forwarding to the August 19 Plan Commission meeting. Woody Rider referred to comments made at the July 15 meeting. It makes no sense to extend the distance between the two buildings—it is fine as proposed. The outdoor dining area shown does not make sense unless there is a restaurant tenant on the end. Regarding more greenery and landscape —Woody did not see an area where it could be installed. Years ago, this area was farmland, not a forest. There are more trees now than there were 100 years ago—we are a "Tree City" for a reason. Woody Rider also asked about the back of the buildings —would people be entering from the rear, and how would those entries be identified? Christine Barton Holmes referred to Providence and a similar situation; they have signage on both doors. Woody Rider asked if that would be allowed. Christine thought if would not be a problem but would check with Rachel Boone. Sue Westermeier said that overall, she had no problem with the buildings but asked about the windows that seemed to be a hot issue. The north building has three windows across the top-20 feet in front of that is the other building. Sue Westermeier said she would like the sign package narrowed down a little more as well as having the lighting finalized. The petitioner should make certain that the signage is addressed at the rear of the buildings. Rick Ripma said he was very uncomfortable with the pond situation. Dick Hoover explained that the Engineering Dept has said that they are not certain the outlet is adequate —the petitioner believes the outlet is adequate and the pond is the size it needs to be. The petitioner has submitted a Drainage Report that shows that the pond works. We have done a study of the downstream that is typical to take into account the effects of the pipe that we are S: /P1anCommission/ Minutes /SpecialStudies /PC -SS /2008 /aug05 6 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 going into under Main Street. One of the comments received from Engineering was that they would tell us whether or not that was adequate and no word has been received as yet. Rick Ripma asked what the hold -up was. Dick Hoover responded that the Drainage Report was submitted in May prior to the July TAC meeting. Engineering comments were received June 24, with additional comments received June 27 It would have been irresponsible to start addressing comments without having received all comments. Gary Duncan in Engineering has been very helpful. Woody Rider noted that the Engineering Dept does a great job, but they are overwhelmed with work. Dick Hoover said he thought it was simply a matter of obtaining the approval from Engineering. Rick Ripma asked if that was expected soon. Rick was not in favor of referring this item to full Commission until the lighting was settled as well as the pond issue. Otherwise, it would be tabled to the next meeting. Sue Westermeier made formal motion to forward Docket No. 08050033 DP /ADLS, Stout Shoes Buildings to the Plan Commission with recommendation for approval at the August 19 meeting, contingent upon receipt of approvals from City of Carmel Engineering and Carmel Urban Forester, a finalized lighting plan and signage plan submitted as well as a drawing of the front of the building showing the parking, the path, and the walkway, prior to Plan Commission meeting. The motion was seconded by Woody Rider, approved 3 -0 8. Docket No. 08050022 DP /ADLS: KFC /Taco Bell West Carmel Center, Blk A, Lot 3 The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for a fast food restaurant. The site is located at 10575 N Michigan Rd. and is zoned B-3/Business within the US 421 Overlay. Filed by Charlie Frankenberger of Nelson Frankenberger for Yum Brands, Inc. Charlie Frankenberger, Attorney, Nelson Frankenberger appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. Also in attendance: Sandy Moore Auckerman, Architect, and Ryan Oyster, Engineer. The applicant seeks approval to re- develop a 1.2 -acre site on the east side of Michigan Road, currently occupied by a vacant Ritter's Frozen Custard building. The site has frontage on three streets, two of which are private, and is zoned B-3/Business within the Michigan Road Overlay. In addition to the DP /ADLS approval, the applicant applied for development standards variances pertaining to parking, stacking, landscaping, and signage at the BZA level. The development standards variances were granted at the BZA meeting on June 23, 2008. The proposed site plan incorporates many advantages, including location of the drive -thru area away from Michigan Road as required by the Michigan Road Overlay. The separation of the drive -thru function from customers entering the building reduces points of conflict. The drive -thru entrance is also located at a point the farthest away from the intersection of two private streets. In reviewing this site, the BZA determined that the parking and stacking and configuration were sufficient. Perhaps the biggest stakeholder in the S: /P1anCommission/ Minutes /SpecialStudies /PC -SS /2008 /aug05 7 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 success of the design is the owner. It is the utmost importance to have a design that is safe and efficient; consequently the site plan proposed is the combination of very careful thought and analysis. During the Plan Commission meeting in July, the building was discussed and it was suggested that the building be revised as well as the backs of the menu boards made more attractive. The petitioner has responded to those suggestions in earnest and good faith, with the revised renderings shown in the information packets. The primary building has been revised with faux windows, gables, lentils, and attractive, prairie stone, split -face product at the base to add texture. In addition, the background around the signs has been replaced by the same texture split -face product. The refuse receptacle area has also been revised adding textured gates. The menu and preview boards were revised to include brick backs and stone caps. As mentioned at Plan Commission, the petitioner understands that the landscaping is acceptable to the Urban Forester. It is also understood that all engineering issues at this stage have been resolved. This particular corner is somewhat blighted with the vacant Ritter's building; the new building is an improvement and consistent with the surrounding areas. There is a reduction in impervious surface and there is more landscaping. At this time, the petitioner is requesting a return to Plan Commission with a favorable recommendation. Dept Report, Christine Barton Holmes. As stated, the majority of the outstanding issues have been resolved. The variances received from the BZA addressed the size of the site and proposed use signage, stacking, parking, buffer yard reduction, and foundation plantings. The landscaping and impervious surface will be an improvement over the existing. The Ritter's site is mainly concrete and asphalt. The majority of the remaining issues seem to be design related. Brian Shapiro and Carol Schleif s input included the distance between the buildings, the windows, and landscaping. The Dept would prefer to see windows on the side —real windows or spandrel. At this time, the Dept recommends forwarding to the full Commission with a favorable recommendation. Woody Rider was in favor of the improvements. Windows: what is real and what is not? The kitchen area windows are not real; the windows added to the front and on the drive thru are real. The windows add balance to the building. The petitioner agreed to add arborvitae to the walk -in area enclosure to break up the fagade. Susan Westermeier asked if the building was taller than the original plan —the response was "negative." The building is approximately 20 feet tall; Wendy's is perhaps 23 feet at the peak. Susan reported that Brad Grabow had expressed concern regarding the east frontage; Charlie Frankenberger reported that he had spoken with Brad prior to the meeting this evening and the view of the east elevation is not to his personal taste. The roofline has been varied, the stacking has been addressed, and the bike parking has been resolved. Susan referred to a comment Wayne Haney had made at full Commission meeting regarding re- orienting the building to separate the drive -thru from the rest of the site. Charlie Frankenberger noted that right now, the way the site is designed, the drive -thru is completely separated from the rest of the site and pedestrian entry to the restaurant. The entry to the drive -thru was moved as far as possible to the north. Charlie referred to the original approval in the Development Plan S: /P1anCommission/ Minutes /SpecialStudies /PC -SS /2008 /aug05 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 process in 1999 which carries an almost identical configuration to the one being shown currently by the petitioner. The Michigan Road Overlay does not want the drive -thru area to be visible--one of the fundamental purposes of the Overlay. Different designs of this site have been studied with the Dept; what the petitioner settled on is the design that was initially approved in 1999. Susan Westermeier noted a comment made about the trash dumpster and that perhaps it should have a roof. Woody Rider and Susan Westermeier agreed that a roof on the trash dumpster would only serve to create flies and make it hard for trash pick -up trucks. Charlie Frankenberger responded that the walls of the enclosure are higher than the top of the dumpster; the dumpster cannot be seen unless you are in a plane —and the dumpster has a lid on it. Having a roof on it would interfere with trash pick -up. The lighting plan was submitted in the original information packets. (tab 15) Charlie said their foot candles at the boundary line are those as required by Ordinance. Rick Ripma asked what the architectural theme of the building is-- -Sandy Moore Auckerman responded that the building is more Georgian—it has dormers, three levels, and the roof is broken into three difference sections; the roof line and the windows all attribute to this style. Rick Ripma —what is the pitch on the roof? One of Rick's major concerns is the transition from the Wendy's drive -thru to the KFC drive -thru. These two drive -thru facilities look exactly the same. There should be something to break it up— perhaps landscaping –to separate the two facilities —maybe columnar shrubs. Dick Hoover, engineer said that if any shrubs were added, it would have to be on Wendy's property—there is no room on this site. Rick Ripma commented that there must be some way to put something on this property to block the two sites and make it look like two separate entry points. Both Rick and Sue agreed that it would be best to "flip" the building and enter from the south. Dick Hoover said the roof pitch is about 6 or 8. A steeper pitch would not leave enough room for the gables. The mechanicals are hidden behind the pitched roof, the roof is designed to accommodate that. Charlie offered to install arborvitae at the north end of the building to screen. Woody commented that if too much landscaping is installed, there would be no way the trash truck could get in and out. It looks as if Wendy's is spilling over onto the KFC property. Woody Rider made formal motion to forward Docket No. 08050022 DP/ALDS, KFC /Taco Bell, West Carmel Center, Blk Al, Lot 3 to the Plan Commission with a positive recommendation, conditioned upon enhanced landscaping to further screen view of the drive thru from Michigan Road —shown at full Plan Commission —and the addition of arborvitae and all landscaping discussed, seconded by Sue Westermeier, approved 3 -0. There was no further business to come before the Committee; the meeting adjourned at 8:45 PM. S: /P1anCommission/ Minutes /SpecialStudies /PC -SS /2008 /aug05 9 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Rick Ripma, Chairperson Ramona Hancock, Secretary S: /P1anCommission/ Minutes /SpecialStudies /PC -SS /2008 /aug05 10 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417