HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Sub 03-04-084F CgR4
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CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION
SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE MINUTES
TUESDAY, MARCH 4, 2008
LOCATION: CAUCUS ROOMS TIME: 6:00 P.M.
CARMEL CITY HALL DOORS OPEN AT 5:30 P.M.
ONE CIVIC SQUARE
CARMEL, IN 46032
Representing the Committee
Carol Schleif, Acting Chairperson
Jay Dorman
Steve Stromquist
Representing the Department
Alexia Donahue Wold
Lisa Stewart
Of Counsel:
John Molitor
Carol Schleif, Acting Chairperson called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m.
The Subdivision Committee will meet to consider the following items:
1. TABLED TO APRIL 1: Docket No. 07010008 Z: 116th Guilford Rezone
The applicant seeks to rezone approximately 9.5 acres from I -1 /Industrial to R -1 /Residence. The
site is located at 1441 S. Guilford Rd. Filed by the Carmel Dept. of Community Services.
Although this item was tabled for this evening, Mike Hollibaugh gave the Committee a brief
overview of the status of the project. He stated that the Planning and Zoning Department has
been negotiating with Duke for some time. The Department feels that retail would not be
appropriate in this area, and would prefer residential zoning; however, Duke Energy was not in
favor of the residential rezone. Duke has been in negotiations to sell the property to
Brighthouse, when that occurred, we suspended the rezone process. The Department was
informed last week that the sale of the property will not take place. Planning and Zoning would
like to again pursue rezoning for this land.
The Department will continue to update the Committee as needed.
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2 -3. Docket No. 07110025 PP: Dapper Estates
The applicant seeks primary plat approval for 2 lots on 0.984 acres. One subdivision waiver
requested is:
Docket No. 07110026 SW SCO 6.05.01 lot with no street frontage
The site is located at 1340 Rohrer Rd. and is zoned R- 1/Residence.
Filed by Matt Skelton of Baker Daniels, LLP for Robert Dapper.
Matt Skelton presented.
This is a two lot subdivision called Dapper Estates. It is on the west side of Rohrer Rd adjacent
to and north of the Village on the Monon. The petitioner provided the Committee with two
subdivision waiver requests and an exhibit that Scott Brewer, DOCS Urban Forester asked to
have presented showing the existing trees on the property and also a large copy of the plat.
Matt stated that he is not aware of any outstanding issues. He stated that the petitioner has
resolved all the engineering issues, which included making sure that the appropriate right of way
which is 40 feet along Rohrer Rd. was dedicated. This has been done. Scott Brewer asked the
petitioner to take photos of the existing trees in the tree preservation area and that has been done
and Scott has the photos for his records.
In addition to that, the petitioner asked for an additional subdivision waiver request that has been
noticed for the Plan Commission meeting March 18 to allow us to avoid having to construct
and /or pay for a pedestrian pathway to be installed on the site. The logic of this is even though
the Subdivision Control Ordinance requires it of every development, however, there is no new
impact, we are not building anything, all that is being done is an imaginary line being drawn in
the dirt, there is no new impact on the pedestrian trail. For that reason we do not believe that the
requirement is appropriate with this development.
Matt went on to say that one of the two lots will include the front home and will be accessed
through a common access easement which was shown on the plans by hash marks.
Alexia Donahue Wold, DOGS, stated that the Forestry Department has approved the tree
preservation plan, the landscape plan and the Engineering Department has no further issues and
all DOC issues have been resolved. The Department recommends moving this item onto the
Plan Commission with a favorable recommendation.
Jay Dorman asked if the tree preservation plan would be recorded. Lex responded that the plat
will be recorded and Scott Brewer will approve the landscape plan and sign and date it, it will
then become part of the permanent record.
Matt Skelton stated that the preservation areas are noted on the plat and any buyer would be
aware that it was a preservation area.
Jay Dorman made a motion to approve Docket No. 07110025 PP: Dapper Estates
The applicant seeks primary plat approval for 2 lots on 0.984 acres. One subdivision waiver
requested is:
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Docket No. 07110026 SW SCO 6.05.01 lot with no street frontage
The site is located at 1340 Rohrer Rd. and is zoned R- 1/Residence.
Filed by Matt Skelton of Baker Daniels, LLP for Robert Dapper.
Steve Stromquist seconded the motion.
Approved 3 -0
4. Docket No. 08010001 ADLS: Parkwood Crossing West Granite City Food Brewery
The applicant seeks design approval for a proposed restaurant. The site is located just west of
96th St Meridian St., and is zoned PUD /Planned Unit Development. Filed by Wade Behm of
Dunham Capital Management.
Aaron Reynolds of Duke Realty presented. He stated that the petitioner is Granite City Food and
Brewery and Dunham Capitol Management. Aaron indicated that Wade Behm of Granite City,
who has flown in to do the presentation, has been delayed at the Indianapolis Airport due to
weather. Aaron and Greg Bryan of Woolpert will try to answer Committee questions. Any
issues that they cannot address, they will contact Wade for further comment.
Aaron indicated if Wade needed, could be reached on his cell phone for any immediate answers.
Jay Dorman suggested that the Committee review any outstanding issues prior to contacting
Mr. Behm.
Alexia Donahue Wold, DOCS reviewed the ADLS request. The petitioner is requesting 4 signs
and will be going for a variance. They are also requesting a variance for the use of stucco on the
building, which under the PUD agreement is not allowed. All other PUD requirements are met.
The Department does want some minor changes done to the site plan, and the petitioner has
agreed to the changes. The Department would like to see the final plans prior to sending out the
Department Reports for Plan Commission, preferably by next Monday, so that the Department
has time for review.
Aaron Reynolds stated that the changes have been made, but not submitted.
Alexia continued that the Engineering Department is still reviewing the plans; however
Engineering is comfortable with moving this item forward to the full Plan Commission. Scott
Brewer had some minor changes, mainly in the area of tree species; he is also comfortable
moving this item to the full Commission as long as those changes are made.
Greg Bryan responded that he has not received any communication from Scott indicating which
species he recommends. Alexia stated that she had just received a letter from Scott answering
these questions. He has also emailed it to Aaron. We will need a set of revised plans once the
changes have been made.
Jay Dorman asked if the BZA will be hear the variance request for the stucco.
Aaron responded that the BZA will hear both the request for stucco and the request for 4 signs
instead of three, which was written into the PUD. The BZA will hear these variance requests on
March 24 t1i
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Alexia stated that the sign that is on the north elevation, is shown on the plans as only showing
the logo which will be seen from the interstate. Alexia stated that Rachel Boone, Sign Permit
Specialist, suggested that having the full name would be more appropriate, so that people on the
interstate would know what the business is.
Steve Stromquist asked Aaron about the northwest corner of 96 and College, is this Duke
Property. Aaron stated that this is Parkwood Crossing, a six story building. Steve asked if this
was part of the PUD. Aaron replied no it is not. It is his understanding, that this building is a
separate PUD. Steve asked if there was any stucco in any of those buildings. Aaron responded
that yes in some of them there is. Discussion of the building materials on these building was
held. Aaron stated that the materials are very common and found on many buildings in Carmel.
Some of them do incorporate stucco; if it is done appropriately and in the right areas of the
building Duke does not have an issue with it. We have discussed that with Granite City and
Duke approved it prior to presenting it to Carmel. Duke will be retaining ownership of the land,
this a ground lease and if Granite City were ever to vacate the building, Duke would take it over.
It is a small percentage of stucco being used, less than 20 If it were a larger portion of the
building, Duke may have issues with it. However, the way that Granite City has explained to
Duke, it is being used on the higher levels of the building, the lower levels will be pre -case stone
material.
Steve indicated that the reason he is asking about this is, that approximately a year ago, the
Committee had a petitioner requesting stucco and he was denied and Steve wants to make sure
that we are consistent in our rulings.
Steve asked Carol Schleif to give her opinion regarding the use of stucco.
Carol Schleif asked if the petitioner is using real stucco or EFIS. Aaron stated that real stucco is
applied on premises. Carol stated that it is a better material than EFIS and requires less flashing.
She stated that with EFIS freeze /thaw can be an issue if it is applied correctly.
Jay Dorman stated that he thinks they are all in agreement that if this was a significantly higher
amount, i.e. the auto dealership, that it would not be approved. Carol asked if the PUD is written
for office buildings. Carol sees some leeway, but is concerned that we turned someone else
down previously. Jay thought there had been a higher percentage of stucco on the previous
building and a small amount of brick and I think staff was looking for a different percentage of
allocation of materials. That petitioner also wanted no buffering and no landscaping and was in
a tight lot, etc.
Steve asked if there is a difference cost by doing the pre -cast as opposed to the stucco. Aaron
responded that there is a cost difference. The petitioner has used more cast stone and less of the
stucco; however, there is an additional cost where they used cast stone. It would be a cost
impact to them to use more cast stone in place of where they have the stucco utilized.
Jay Dorman discussed the proposed signage. At night the words Granit City become burgundy
and Food and Beverage become white. Jay does not like stark, bright white light, he asked to
please make sure that the candle power of those lights does not exceed 1000 watts but rather 500
watts, a muted bulb.
Carol asked if these requirements are covered in the lighting plan Alexia indicated that there
are no restrictions for candle power or color. Aaron stated that the plans indicated white neon
tubing, which he felt would not be a bright, glaring light, but would be muted.
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Jay Dorman also requested to make the rows of parking lot lights dimmer, so not to impact the
neighborhood next door. Aaron stated that he is aware of things than can be done with
shielding. Jay asked that the petitioners try to think of this as their backyard, and how would
they feel about the lighting. Please look at how much light needs to be. Can they be more
focused toward the building.
Discussion ensued; the highest they have is 3.9 on their plan facing the southeast.
Aaron stated that the PUD is written to say they are not to exceed .1 foot candle at the north
right -of -way line of west 96 street. He thinks they can move the light up into the patio area.
This will keep it in line with the PUD.
Carol Schleif asked how many people will be working in the restaurant at peak hours. She has
reviewed the parking and the space numbers are not matching up. Is there really a need for all of
the parking spaces. Aaron responded that 30 stalls have been allocated in the Parkwood parking
garage for Granite City employees. Granite City has indicated that this will be the maximum
number of spaces they will need for employees for any one shift. Carol reviewed the spaces for
the building. She calculated that they only need 115 parking spaces and they have almost 140
spaces, can there be less parking and more green space. Carol reviewed these based on the
calculations from Chapter 26 they have parking requirements in the PUD
Aaron stated that Granite City had an issue initially with only being allocated 137 spaces and
that is why we agreed to give them 30 additional stalls. Aaron also stated that based on the
companies performance in other areas they convinced Duke they needed more spaces for
patrons. Carol stated that this is still more than they need, and we do not require that many
anywhere else. Her concern is heat islands and they are using asphalt, it is not permeable pavers
or anything that is considered avant garde or an upgrade to something environmentally friendly.
There are 14 or 15 spaces in a row and as we talk with landscape architects, they state that going
beyond 10 in a row is a lot, it just turns into a used parking lot look. Aaron stated Duke has a
smaller lot, adjacent to the east is even smaller than the Granite City lot is and we also may then
agree to a cross parking access easement, because the lot immediately to the east would serve the
other lot and the possible entities that Duke is speaking about occupying that lot are just as large
in their building footprint and we would anticipate the seating capacity to be comparable to
Granite City. Per the PUD restaurants are the only acceptable uses of these two out lots.
Carol made the statement that there is a bus line going by there, office day time use, evening use
so do we need that many spaces. Steve stated that in his opinion yes they would. He went by
there today and with no other restaurants along there, it would be reasonable to assume that it
will be packed. Carol acquiesced.
Jay Dorman asked the approximate distance from the parking lot to the existing pond is it
possible for children to run into the pond. It was stated that the bank of the pond starts at the
north property line and that Duke does plan to have a guard rail there Carol asked if they could
do vegetation instead Jay suggested that combination of a guard rail and bushes would be the
best resolution.
Carol asked about permeable pavers and if they had been considered. Aaron stated that not
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really very much. He went on to explain that when this master plan was developed the
technology of permeable pavers, etc. was very new and companies were not very interested in
them at that time. However, Duke is very interested in the technology, and will hopefully
incorporate them in future projects.
Jay Doman stated that it appears that the dumpster door it is mostly brick and will be higher
than the dumpster, he asked for confirmation of this from Aaron. Aaron stated that the wall will
be higher than the dumpster.
Also discussed was the bike rack. A visual was shown indicating its location.
Carol asked about the fence that will go around the patio, is it steel, painted black, etc. The fence
specifications were reviewed. Carol stated that paint needs to be listed. There is an entrance
from the restaurant out to the patio. The Committee asked if there will there be umbrellas or
awnings on the patio. Greg responded that none are planned at this time. The petitioner was
advised that with the south elevation, umbrellas will be needed.
Carol asked if the petitioners had looked at day lighting. Lex indicated this issue was to be
handled by Wade. Aaron clarified that Carol was speaking of daylight in the building; she
indicated that there is 8,000 9,000 sq. ft. and only 7 windows and this does not seem adequate
She indicated that with the flat roof, some skylights could be put in
Carol has sent an email and spoken with a VP at Duke about some LEED standards, which with
the brewery would be fairly easy to earn.
Carol shared that just by site selection they had 8 -10 LEED points and they only need 26 to be
certified, she feels that this is a doable project.
Jay Dorman made a motion to approve. Docket No. 08010001 ADLS: Parkwood Crossing
West Granite City Food Brewery
The applicant seeks design approval for a proposed restaurant. The site is located just west of
96th St Meridian St., and is zoned PUD /Planned Unit Development. Filed by Wade Behm of
Dunham Capital Management.
With the following conditions:
BZA variance approval.
Subject to the north parking lot having a guardrail and landscaping around the guardrail.
The dumpster brick wall is taller than the dumpster.
The photometric plan on the south side of the building and plat is muted and toned down
The white lettering for food and beverage is muted, not only in relation to the red Granite City
sign, but it is toned down to illuminate the words Food and Beverage.
And subject to approval of all DOCS requirements for forestry and any outstanding Department
concerns and any DOE requirements
And incorporate any possible LEED standards
Steve Stromquist seconded the motion.
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Approved 3 -0
Jay Dorman made a motion to adjourn the meeting.
Steve Stromquist seconded the motion.
Meeting adjourned at 7:10 p.m.
Carol Schleif, Acting Chairperson Lisa Stewart
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