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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes SpecStdy 07-06-10G` ­1 OF C4F 'Q pRT Srg yy A C l ty of arm e /NDIANp- CARMEL PLAN COMNIISSION SPECIAL STUDIES COMMITTEE JULY 6, 2010 CAUCUS ROOMS, 2 FLR CARMEL CITY HALL ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, IN 46032 6:00 P.M. Members Present: Jay Dorman, Kevin "Woody" Rider, Rick Ripma, Steve Stromquist, Sue Westermeier (Note: Woody Rider divided his time between Special Studies Committee and City Council meeting and was out of the room for voting on some Dockets.) DOCS Staff Present: Director Michael Hollibaugh, Christine Barton- Holmes, Adrienne Keeling, Alexia Donahue -Wold, Rachel Boone, and Legal Counsel John Molitor Also Present: Candy Martin, Plan Commission Secretary pro tem The Special Studies Committee considered the following items: 1. Docket No. 10060014 ADLS Amend: Carmel Office Court Signage The applicant seeks approval for a new sign package for Building D of the center. The site is located at 301 E. Carmel Dr. and is zoned B -8 /Business. Filed by Amanda Gates of Sign Craft Industries. Present for Petitioner: Amanda Gates, Sign Craft Industries Overview: Wall sign with red faces, black returns, and trim caps Signs internally illuminated Proposed sign will match established sign package for Building A Dept Report, Rachel Boone: Signage will create more visibility for businesses Dept is in support of request Owner of center does not want to expand the package —only for Bldg D Dept recommends approval Motion: Steve Stromquist "To approve Docket No. 10060014 ADLS Amend, Carmel Office Court Signage as presented to the Committee." The motion was seconded by Jay Dorman, approved 4 -0. S:/PlanCommission/Minutes /Committee Minutes /Special Studies 2010 /july06 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARAIEL, INDIANA 46032 317 571 -2417 2. Docket No. 10060015 ADLS Amend: The Overlook Signage The applicant seeks approval for a new sign package for the center and a new ground complex identification sign. The site is located at 5790 E. Main St. and is zoned B -3. Filed by Jon Dobosiewicz of Nelson Frankenberger on behalf of the owner. Present for Petitioner: Charlie Frankenberger, attorney with Nelson and Frankenberger, representing Gershman Brown Crowley. Also present: Tom Crowley, Gershman Brown Crowley; Jon Dobosiewicz, Nelson and Frankenberger. Overview: Request new sign package for building Ground identification sign will be 6 feet high, 56.25 square feet in area Ground sign will have an 18" brick base, tan color to match the building Only tenant name will shine through at night Ground sign will be landscaped Proposed wall sign will have color faces, choice of red, blue, green, yellow, purple, and black white New sign internally illuminated, mounted directly to the fascia of building Logos limited to 25% of total sign area per sign, not limited by color No variances are required Department Report, Rachel Boone: Dept requests petitioner limit color palette to 4 colors in addition to black white Logos are limited to 25% of total sign area; logo itself not restricted to color Dept in support of ground sign but requests petitioner make the "Overlook" name darker on the sign Petitioner has requested six tenant panels on ground identification sign —Dept requests confirmation of the number of tenant panels on the sign Dept has concern with location of ground sign and its proximity to roundabout and visibility of motorists Committee Questions /Comments: Understand staff's concerns regarding signage, but don't see much difference between roundabout and intersection as far as placement of signage proposed placement is best location Why previous single color of gold? Nick Kestner, 2123 West 106` Street, stated that the Plan Commission did not previously pick the single color, only asked that signage be one color and one type- face -that has changed and color is now recognized for corporate identity Charlie Frankenberger noted that the Ordinance does not regulate the number of tenant panels on the sign; ordinance also does not require that every tenant within the building be listed on the sign. (The Dept was not in agreement with Charlie Frankenberger's statement.) Charlie Frankenberger stated that two center identification signs are allowed; this center consists of a certain number of lots, and no common area, therefore, the identification sign must be on a lot; one ground sign is being requested. The center identification sign proposed complies with all regulations of the ordinance one -third of the monument sign is devoted to the identification of the center, two- thirds allocated to tenant families. Dept Response, Rachel Boone: The petitioner can have the sign for the entire complex but cannot have just this sign for this building. S: /PlanCommission /Minutes /Committee Minutes /Special Studies 2010 /july06 2 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARAIEL, INDIANA 46032 317 571 -2417 Charlie Frankenberger: Different issues Signage is allowed under the Ordinance in multi tenant complex as center identification Number of tenant panels is not regulated by Ordinance and does not require tenant names to be on the sign It is not known at this time the exact tenant names that will appear on the panels. Four tenant colors are OK plus the black and white Jon Dobosiewicz noted that there could be two center identification signs in this instance; the Ordinance permits one along Hazel Dell and one along Main Street Tom Crowley, Gershman, Brown, Crowley addressed the committee: Property was originally one parcel Gershman Brown Crowley purchased property from Osco St. Vincent and the Day Care were sold off Confusion is how does Gershman put something in place for someone that has never cooperated with them in the first place There was much discussion as to what the Ordinance allows, the number of tenants, what qualifies as a complex, and the ground sign Legal Counsel, John Molitor agreed with comments made by Jon Dobosieweicz. The problem goes back to the development of the center. In a sense, there is a possibility for two center signs to be located on the property that are unrelated to other property owners within the center. Motion: Woody Rider "To approve Docket No. 10060015 ADLS Amend, The Overlook Signage, with no restriction on number of tenant panels and five colors plus black and white, the name to appear darker on the monument sign than submitted, and the monument sign placed in the location as presented;" seconded by Steve Stromquist, approved 3 in favor, 2 opposed (Dorman and Westermeier) There was confusion among committee members as to the five colors being approved -was the intention to approve the specific five colors submitted for review, or any five colors of the petitioner's choice? Clarifying Motion: Jay Dorman "To approve Docket No. 10060015 ADLS Amend, The Overlook Signage with five of any color, plus black and white; monument sign to be located as depicted with panels to be unregulated; the "Overlook" displayed to be darker than submitted; petitioner does not have to return to Committee if a tenant is switched with a new color." The motion was seconded by Woody Rider, approved 3 in favor, 2 opposed (Ripma and Westermeier) 3. Docket No. 10040009 DP /ADLS: Turkey Hill Minit Markets The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for a mixed use building with office, retail, and fuel station uses. It is located at the northeast corner of Range Line Rd. Carmel Dr., the former Pizza Hut site. The site is zoned B -8 /Business and lies within the Carmel Dr. Range Line Rd. Overlay. Filed by Jim Shinaver of Nelson Frankenberger, on behalf of Steve Fuller of TH Midwest Inc. Present for Petitioner: Jon Dobosiewicz, Land Use Professional, Nelson and Frankenberger; Steve Fuller, Turkey Hill; Charlie Frankenberger, attorney with Nelson and Frankenberger; other members of the development team representing the Engineer and Architect. S: /P1anCommission/Minutes /Committee Minutes /Special Studies 2010 /july06 3 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CAR EL, INDIANA 46032 317 -571 -2417 Overview: Up- dated, revised building exhibits distributed Comparison between original submission and review and new elevations for review tonight Changes made to parapet design building materials to lighten appearance of building and provide additional contrast Second page shows elevation and site materials facing Range Line Road Changes made to parapet from peak element to flat element as well as screen rooftop mechanical without need for secondary mechanical screen Rectangular brick accent areas were adjusted in size and enhanced in contrast with upper area of the building Color of brick accent elements above windows doors were added as well as to the parapet area to add additional contrast Awning colors changes to lighter color to add contrast but not detract from building (light grey color as opposed to red) Additional changes include changes to the window element in upper elevation to match lower elevation Redesign of parapet wall on upper floor blade sign location Design of screen wall incorporates cast stone, textured stone, and masonry Height of fuel canopy has also been modified (lowered by 8 to 9 feet) Photograph of a store in Turkey Hill, north Columbus, Ohio to show building materials and design concepts carried into the revised building elevations Photograph shows the blade sign that is also proposed for use at this location Site plan distributed showing number of signs and location of pricing sign for traffic southbound on Range Line Road second ground pricing sign will show for traffic northbound on Range Line Road and eastbound on Carmel Drive Third ground sign is on far corner at an angled element and only visible from traffic westbound on Carmel Drive Petitioner asked by Staff to consider placing wall sign on south facade of building in lieu of putting Turkey Hill name and logo identification on the ground sign Petitioner's preference is to have the ground sign as presented without the wall sign, but will appear before the Board of Zoning Appeals for determination. Turkey Hill name and logo would be illuminated in both cases, whether on the ground or the building Access addressed by Engineering Dept petitioner has provided additional aerials Dept has high- lighted in the Dept Report Dept Report, Christine Barton Holmes Forestry/landscaping issues resolved Outstanding Issues: Dept of Engineering Access apparently resolved; drainage an open item; shared parking parking calculations an issue Dept Report, Rachel Boone, Signage: Petitioner will need several variances through BZA Petitioner is in Carmel /Range Line Road Overlay Number of signs restricted Signage visibility for traffic eastbound on Carmel Drive would be restricted —type of element within proposed roundabout unknown as far as affecting visibility Perhaps smaller logo and condensing the name might be an option Dept is generally in favor of signage S: /PlanCommission/Minutes /Committee Minutes /Special Studies 2010 /july06 4 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARINIEL, INDIANA 46032 317 571 2417 Committee Questions /Comments: Dept of Engineering Traffic flow for site --curb cut will not exist and right turn becomes a left turn or stays right in/right out? Petitioner's response: with the Kroger approval, curb cut was limited to right in /right out —no change requested Right in /Right out onto Carmel Drive has been there forever and no reason to get rid of it —the roundabout is coming and will address that —it will not be possible to turn left this is a non -issue Signage: If petitioner had a choice of sign on wall or building, which would be preferable? (Wall) Committee members would prefer building without the sign Question regarding address monument —would it restrict view? (Probably, but same situation would exist all along Carmel Drive) Why proliferation of signs regarding gas pricing? (Customers can check price before entering station) How are the price signs changed? (Electronic scroller can be changed from inside store) Signs above entry door —lit or logo? (decals attached to the window, non illuminated) Cap or planter on the wall? (cap) Aesthetically, the second rendition is much more acceptable than the first Trash enclosure also looks nice Any idea when the roundabout will go in -5 years, 1 year? (no idea, tied to availability of funds) Can you make a left right out of Kroger facility? (right only —left turn would require going through Kroger to the stoplight at Executive Drive) Traffic concern would be traffic coming out of Turkey Hill and going east (turning left) onto Carmel Drive Will there be some type of directional way to "weave -thru" Kroger parking lot in the event traffic chooses not to turn right directly onto Range Line Road Canopy —did the color change as well as the height? (yes, color is now lighter, grey color materials and style the same —pole light fixtures are 15/16 feet tall, about the height of the canopy) Light fixture— design is low profile and intended to blend with the canopy rather than be a goose -neck, stylized fixture that would detract from the building Colors are a great improvement but the building still looks a little "chopped up" Truck Deliveries? (On the north side of the lot is an interior lift, and another area identified for fueling on the side —room to access) Parking adequate? (Yes) Jon Dobosiewicz thought that the wall could be brought down a little to comply with Dept request, and make Turkey Hill name and logo fit within the same framework as the pricing sign to get back to aesthetic issue Staff has of making wall height consistent rather than elevating it. Regarding traffic, Jon Dobosiewicz noted that at 116` Range Line Road, both gas stations have 4 driveway cuts literally at the intersection; properties adjacent to both sites cannot be accessed without going onto 116` Street and Range Line Road. The condition that Engineering reviewed and we presented about eliminating one of Turkey Hill's driveways because of close proximity to Kroger is a more favorable and beneficial condition than the one that exists there today. Jon Dobisiewicz stated that the petitioner will work with Kroger to come up with an acceptable traffic plan and post directional signs at Executive Drive entrance to Kroger and from the Turkey Hill site. Motion: Sue Westermeier "To forward Docket No. 10040009 DP /ADLS, Turkey Hill Minit Markets to the full Plan Commission with a positive recommendation, conditioned upon BZA approval after presentation of two options on signage —one with a wall sign, but the preferred one Committee preference —would be the consistent wall height with a ground sign and reduced logo size so that the wall is more consistent; the middle where the logo is would be the height of the post -6 inches higher than the wall. The Petitioner is to also work S: /PlanCommission/Minutes /Committee Minutes /Special Studies 2010 /july06 5 ONE CIVIC SQUIRE CARDIEL, INDIANA 46032 317 -571 2417 with Kroger on a safe and acceptable traffic pattern to get to Executive Drive." The motion was seconded by Woody Rider, positive recommendation approved 5 -0. 4. Docket No. 10040014 OA: Patch Ordinance VIII The applicant seeks to amend Chapter 3: Definitions; Chapter 23B: US Highway 31 Corridor Overlay Zone; Chapter 23C: US Highway 421 Michigan Road Corridor Overlay Zone; Chapter 23D: Old Town District Overlay Zone; Chapter 23E: Home Place District Overlay Zone; Chapter 23F. Carmel Dr. Range Line Rd. Overlay Zone; Chapter 24: Development Plan and Architectural Design, Exterior Lighting, Landscaping Signage, Chapter 25: Additional Use Regulations; Chapter 25.07: Signs; Chapter 27: Additional Parking Loading Regulations and Chapter 29: Administration of the Zoning Ordinance. Filed by Carmel Dept. of Community Services on behalf of the Carmel Plan Commission. Present for Petitioner: Adrienne Keeling, Dept of Community Services. Changes made since last month- will go over the items Overview: Committee previously discussed farm animals proposed language shown on page 6 of the draft, title "Raising of Hens" "Food Stands" now appears in a separate section, per the Committee's recommendation, and is found in Additional Use Regulations, Chapter 25 Seasonal Sales Timelines Overlay Zone Boundaries Impact Fees Proposal for Signage /ADLS to be approved administratively —after some discussion, the Committee preferred reviewing signage as a Committee rather than administrative approval— maintain the current process Motion: Steve Stromquist "To forward Docket No. 10040014 OA, Patch Ordinance VIII to the full Commission with a recommendation for approval, with the exception of the signage approval process which should continue at the Plan Commission and Special Studies Committee level for review and approval; and Food Stands are to be removed from location when they are closed, and seating areas not provided." Motion seconded by Jay Dorman, approved 5 -0. Meeting adjourned at 8:05 PM amona Hancock, ecretary S: /PlanCommission/Minutes /Committee Minutes /Special Studies 2010 /july06 ONE CIVIC SQUIRE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317 571 2417