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CARMEL PLAN CONIlVIISSION
SPECIAL STUDIES COMMITTEE
MARCH 29, 2011 MEETING
CAUCUS ROOMS, 2 nd FLR
CARMEL CITY HALL
ONE CIVIC SQUARE
CARMEL, IN 46032
6:00 PM
Committee Members Present: Nick Kestner, Kevin "Woody" Rider, Steve Stromquist, Sue
Westermeier
Members Absent: Leo Dierckman
DOCS Staff Present: Angie Conn, Legal Counsel John Molitor
Also Present: Ramona Hancock, Plan Commission Secretary
The Special Studies Committee considered the following items:
1. MOVED OVER FROM 3/29 SUBD. COMMITTEE AGENDA: Docket No. 11020015 ADLS
Amend: Indiana Baseball Academy Signage
The applicant seeks approval to install a wall sign to a new tenant space within an existing
building. The site is located at 9760 Mayflower Park Dr. and is zoned I- I /Industrial. Filed by
Robert Scherer of The Sign Group, Inc. on behalf of Indiana Baseball Academy.
Present for the Petitioner: Bob Scherer of the Sign Group.
Overview:
Non illuminated sign letters
Logo in proportion to the Ordinance for Indiana Baseball Academy
Sign located on east building elevation, per drawings
Dept Report, Angie Conn:
Signage meets all requirements of the Ordinance
Recommend approval
Motion: Woody Rider "To approve Docket No. 11020015 ADLS Amend, Indiana Baseball Academy
Signage as presented;" seconded by Sue Westermeier, approved 4 -0
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2. Docket No. 10120008 Z: The Bridges PUD
The applicant seeks approval to rezone 63.7 acres from S -2 /Residence to PUD /Planned Unit
Development. The site is located at 11405 Spring Mill Rd., at the southeast corner of 116" St.
and Spring Mill Rd. Filed by Charlie Frankenberger of Nelson Frankenberger, on behalf of
G. B. Developers II, LLC.
Present for Petitioner: Charlie Frankenberger, attorney, Nelson Frankenberger representing GB
Developers II, LLC, contract purchaser of the real estate and subsidiary of Gershman Brown; Tom
Crowley; Steve Pittman and Chad Pittman, land owners; Jon Dobosiewicz, Nelson Frankenberger;
and other members of the development team.
Overview:
First Committee Meeting occurred on March 1 St and was devoted exclusively to traffic
Anticipating two more committee meetings: April 12 and May 4
Subject of tonight's review: corporate and commercial blocks
April 12 review, residential use; May 04 review -a red -line PUD with applicable revisions
from committee process and meetings with DOCS staff
Review location of proposed, 63 -acre site
Surrounding uses include offices to the east
South and east of site is suburban neighborhood; Springmill Place and Williams Mill
Subdivisions to the west
North of the site is IU Health (Clarian) and northwest is the proposed Mormon Temple
Subject property zoned S- 2/Residential
Zoning to the east is B -6 /Business
Zoning south and east is S -2 /Residential within the US 31 Overlay
Adjacent to the west is Springmill Place Neighborhood zoned S- 2 /Residetial, Williams Mill
zoned S- 2/Residential, and the Mormon Temple- also zoned S -2
Based on the Overlay requirements, the entire subject parcel must conform with Overlay
standards
Proposed development of the property will include a rezone
Noteworthy: The C -3 Comprehensive Plan makes a change for this site as no longer residential
but a special study area and employment node
Proposed plan preserves residential west of Springmill Road
Additional study done by Plan Commission reflected US 31 corridor plan
Area defined as critical corridor plan
Plan identifies preservation of residential west of Springmill Road
Springmill Place is sensitive residential
Transition can be provided in several ways as noted in Comp Plan by street, landscaping,
commercial buildings close to residential height and by situating lower intensity uses between
office /retail and single family
The Bridges includes all transitional elements
The Bridges breaks down into three use areas: corporate office use, east of Illinois Street; office
and residential use block; and commercial amenity use between Illinois and Springmill Road
Corporate office use adjacent to US 31 and office use
Building architecture displayed
Images shown to public are incorporated into and made a part of the PUD and backed -up by
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text development standards
Ll Images further illustrate commitment to consistent building and site design
Transitionin provided by separation of use, reduced building height, intervening roadways
Illinois, 111' Street, and Springmill Road lower intensity uses west of Illinois Street to
Springmill Road
Buildings 150 feet in height are permitted today on this parcel and as close as 400 feet to the
existing Springmill Place neighborhood
Proposed location is in excess of one thousand feet from Springmill neighborhood
Building height at 111 Street restricted to a maximum of 38 feet in height
Buildings adjacent to 111 Street are required to be smaller
Setback of 20 feet from 111 Street
Commercial amenity use block adjacent to Illinois Street, 116 Street and Springmill includes
restaurant, offices, retail and service uses, grocery and fuel station —all useful for serving the
corridor
Commercial not located adjacent to existing neighborhoods
Development standards for this use block
Proposed maximum building height when adjacent to Springmill Road or 111 Street is 38 feet
or 3 stories in height
Clarian could be a maximum of 9 stories tall or 150 feet; additional buildings on Clarian site
along Springmill north of I I O h Street can be a maximum of 40 feet
Cross section of Springmill shown 20 foot setback required; minimum proposed is 30 feet
Landscape buffer designed exceeds the ordinance requirement
Water Management has been incorporated as an aesthetic amenity adjacent to trail and adjacent
to Springmill Road
Committee Questions /Comments:
C -3 Plan only a recommendation, not up -dated Comprehensive Plan?
C -3 Plan WAS approved and adopted by resolution but not the Zoning Ordinance
Springmill Road 20 feet of plantings what follows, asphalt?
(response) Springmill Road, path, right -of -way, 20 foot buffer
Currently un- dedicated right -of -way on portions of Springmill Road says Jon Dobosiewicz—
some locations have 50 feet of right -of -way plus 20 feet for plantings, and there could be a
building 60 feet from the right -of -way
How far back would building be: (response, 30 feet from proposed right -of -way or 50 feet from
pavement edge)
Water Management would be within part of 20 -foot landscaping area mixed with water and
stone feature intended to supplement but not a solid screen don't want a wall
Jon Dobosiewicz: This parcel has changed from residential to an employment node and area of special
study and transition under the C -3 Plan. Building setback from Springmill is 65 feet at Parkwood
West, building height is 79 feet. The Clarian property was approved in 2003 for hospital. Within
r--) Clarian PUD, Springmill Road has 100 feet of right -of -way with required 15 foot landscape buffer; the
petitioner is proposing a 20 -foot landscape buffer. Within Clarian PUD, there could be buildings
constructed within the 15 feet of building setback from Springmill Road Clarian additional buildings
can be 40 -foot building height and 2 stories. There is 30 feet of setback and 20 feet of landscaping
proposed at the Mormon Temple site
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Additional Committee Questions:
Typical big box? Tom Crowley says this is a service- oriented center, not a shopping mall
Concern with water management will it have water in it at all times?
Note: Water Management treatment is not a swale that will fill with water
Water Management Treatment will be flowing water —clean, rock, more like a stream or brook
rather than a drainage ditch and will comply with all storm water management requirements
How much water will it pump?
Tom Crowley no idea in terms of gallons not like a big, deep retention pond that is unsafe
for kids
Where will the storm water go?
Questions regarding the PUD text re low walls /fences, entrance signs, tenant signs, integrated
architectural feature rather than isolated sign (low wall and stone allows screening the parking
lot from view Urban Forester wanted more landscaping rather than low wall
Tom Crowley agreed to strike "fence or fences" from PUD, page 18, section 7.6, subsection b
Committee requests markings if more than one row in parking lot; petitioner agreed
Tom Crowley: Illinois Street could move 10 to 15 feet; City will purchase lot adjacent to
Springmill and utilize existing right -of -way where Illinois will continue south moving of the
road is up to City, not petitioner
If this moves forward, Tom Crowley says development will be market driven as to what is built
first perhaps retail
Tom Crowley agreed to no tenant signage on Springmill Road only The Bridges signage, and
directional signs once entering complex
Tom Crowley.... trying to make the signs more integrated, architectural feature rather than
isolated sign
As written, ordinance would allow tenant signs; petitioner would up -light signs, logos permitted
Tom Crowley...... Will not build a building without having a tenant/specific user not looking
to building three groceries or three fuel stations
Prairie Style is an appropriate transition for this development has elements that transition well
with different uses
Charlie Frankenberger: The buildings will be brought forward at ADLS and DP approval may be
different but just as nice. The character illustrations will be attached to the PUD Ordinance
illustrations are part of the PUD; building ability up to 130,000 square feet
Where would fuel station be located? (interior to the site, not on the end)
Any change would require approval by Plan Commission
On -going concern with traffic —need to consider 106 and Springmill intersection
City Engineer has said a lot of traffic on Springmill will be funneled to Illinois Street at its
completion -Jon Dobosiewicz willing to set up meeting with City Engineer and Traffic
Engineer to explain
Department Report, Angie Conn:
Sent detailed Dept Report noting transitions and buffers
Would like to hear from public if chair feels appropriate
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Gordon Byers, Noblesville attorney will be representing adjacent neighborhoods Williams Mill and
Springmill Place. Gordon has a meeting scheduled tomorrow with the developer.
Note: There are No members of the public in attendance this evening that are Not Represented by
Gordon Byers.
Tom Crowley: Petition was filed December 17, 2010; Mr. Crowley met before Thanksgiving with
homeowners, made presentation January 7, 2011 to Civic Board.
Gordon Byers addressed the Committee on behalf of adjacent neighborhoods. Gordon is familiar with
the history, the Comp Plan, etc., and offered due apologies for not having had a chance to meet with
the developer /attorney prior to the meeting this evening. Gordon has some knowledge of the site and is
sensitive to concerns of the neighboring residents such as: What is a PUD, what does it mean, how
will it affect me, etc.? The number one concern is traffic. Neighbors would like to see a trigger for
Illinois Street extension. The neighboring communities understand the property will be developed as
office, residential, and retail, but the devil is in the details; any standard can be modified. The
proposed uses are probably appropriate, but the water feature is a concern regarding size, square
footage, retail, and 130,000 square feet for one building is not realistic. Regarding the corporate block,
there is disagreement regarding building heights; some retail can be 60 feet in height, and that is a
concern. A huge issue is buffering on Springmill and 111 th Street. Neighboring residents would like to
see buffer increased to 150 feet with the trail and water feature. The architecture is a great step, but
disagree with the access points. Some of the uses are a concern such as the fuel /gas station, also some
retail and apartments. The Comp Plan talks about Illinois Street as an employment node, etc. We
think they can still provide a nice center, but tone it down a little and be sensitive to the residents on
Springmill. It is important to let homeowners feel that they have some involvement. This is a rezone
and conditions can be attached at this time. Mr. Crowley has a good track record —need to work on the
language in the PUD. The retail, office, and residential are good components, but need to get into the
details.
Charlie Frankenberger: Willing to meet with Gordon Byers in Charlie's office. By attaching character
illustrations to the PUD, it prevents "bait and switch." Note: Itemization of demands from neighbors
needs to be realistic.
Public Comments:
Ron Houck, Springmill Place, referred to page 39 in Comprehensive Plan that refers to Structure
Features: Minimum of 4 stories and a maximum 10 stories along US 31 and I -465, but not adjacent to
Illinois Street; this may be a projection, but not anticipated for a 150 foot building. Page 86 refers to
height of buildings adjacent to Illinois Street does not particularly align; once allowed to happen, no
control in the future.
Dept Report, Angie Conn:
Page 3 regarding Clarian North PUD, designates area 2A and 2B to allow for single family
dwellings, two family dwellings, multi family townhomes, home occupations, assisted living
facility clearly a residential component.
13 acre parcel originally planned with Clarian PUD, planned as a buffer to neighborhood to the
north, remains S- 2/Residential and could be developed in the future as housing
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Clarian was altered thru the process to provide sensitivity to neighbors
Ron Houck noted that residents did submit questions probably a 15 year process with a lot of
substantial changes to the plan
Judy Hagan, Springmill Place. Concerns with: signage changeable copy. ability to sub divide property
in smaller pieces, project in general. This parcel may be in a vacuum with thoughts on both sides as to
what could be developed. Nothing like this proposal was ever anticipated, but there is an opportunity
here. Concerned about grocery store in a residential corridor, traffic— things going on all 4 corners
would become a monumental barrier. This is the first mixed use development in the community. and
an opportunity for the mixed use development to address all concerns.
Ephraim Wilfong, 1020 Broadway confirmed No tenant signs along Springmill and The Bridges
signage along Springmill will be up- lighted. The setbacks being provided are greater than the City
requires. Is there a maximum or minimum for landscaping that the City currently requires? (Yes) The
image of the landscape /stone water feature is a character image of what could be installed the
minimum is established by Ordinance. The petitioner will not allow tenant signage panels along
Springmill.
Committee requested that the Department send an email to all Plan Commission members and
highlight questions to return to committee.
Allison Brown, 600 West 106 Street. Where was the landscape /water treatment photo taken? (a
shopping center in Texas) Questioned the process for changes in zoning would a rezone have to
occur to develop as residential, since that is the current zoning.
Jon Dobosiewicz referred to zoning map. This property now considered in the 31 Overlay and any
development would involve a rezone.
Jill Meisenheimer, Any special study ever done of this area?
Angie Conn, response: No special study was done of this area. The Comp Plan was adopted in 2009
and there was no opportunity to do a special study.
Charlie Frankenberger noted that a special study was not done of the area and is not required. The
Special Study Committee offers close scrutiny of this matter.
Steve Pitman, land owner. addressed the committee and public regarding the proposed development of
the area and history of the development of the Williams Mill and Springmill Place neighborhoods.
Adjourned at 8:15
r
Steve Stromquist, Chairperson
ona ancock, ecretary
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