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CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION
SPECIAL STUDIES COMMITTEE
MARCH 1, 2011
CAUCUS ROOMS, 2 nd FL
CARMEL CITY HALL
ONE CIVIC SQUARE
CARMEL, IN 46032
6:00 PM
Members present: Leo Dierckman, Nick Kestner, Woody Rider, Steve Stromquist, Susan Westermeier
DOCS Staff Present: Director Michael Hollibaugh, Angie Conn; Legal Counsel John Molitor
Dept of Engineering Staff Present: Director Mike McBride, Gary Duncan
The Special Studies Committee considered the following agenda item:
1. Docket No. 10120008 Z: The Bridges PUD
The applicant seeks approval to rezone 63.7 acres from S -2 /Residence to PUD /Planned Unit
Development. The site is located at 11405 Spring Mill Rd., at the southeast corner of 116'' St. and
Spring Mill Rd. Filed by Charlie Frankenberger of Nelson Frankenberger, on behalf of G. B.
Developers II, LLC.
Present for Petitioner: Charlie Frankenberger, attorney, Nelson and Frankenberger; Tom Crowley, G.B.
Developers; Steve and Chad Pittman, two of the land owners; Steve Fehribach, traffic engineer, Matt Brown
and Amanda, A F Engineering; Jon Dobosiewicz, Land Use Professional, Nelson and Frankenberger; other
members of the development team
Project Overview relating to traffic, Charlie Frankenberger:
Traffic inevitable with any development
Petitioner has worked with the Dept in numerous meetings
Traffic Analysis meetings: brought solutions will improve existing traffic conditions
Traffic Analysis evaluates AM and PM peak hours
Traffic Analysis assumes immediate, full build -out of all phases; however, development will be
built -out over time and will allow for construction of needed improvements
Springmill Road has remained two lanes throughout growth and development
Construction of Illinois Street is a solution —has been on City Thoroughfare Plan for decades
The Bridges will be a catalyst for traffic solution
The Bridges cannot and should not be required to address all traffic issues, only its impact
Not cost effective to make improvements that would be torn out in a few years to make way for
other improvements
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Overview, Traffic Impact Analysis, Steve Fehribach:
Traffic Studies are scientific assumptions based on what is going on in a community
Traffic Studies make recommendations
Main goal is to examine existing traffic and determine conditions
Ultimately, traffic studies show what improvements are necessary to achieve high levels of
service
Traffic Studies explain what needs to be done in the system to make it work
Site Plan has three components: Retail, Office, Residential/Multi- family
Site Plan includes access drives some full, some right in/right out only
Changes in access drives alignment, right in -right out, at request of Dept
Traffic data collection (traffic counts) counted 6 to 9 AM and 4 to 7 PM, with good weather,
the month of December, school in session, and at 15 minutes intervals
If traffic works in critical peak hours, it will work at other times
Traffic analysis used the worst hour and worst case scenario
Illinois Street currently runs from 116`" to 111 `h Street and eventually down to 106 Street
The continuation of Illinois Street will have a profound effect on Springmill Road will reduce
the amount of traffic
The continuation of Illinois Street is not guaranteed
Illinois Street in traffic analysis exists when The Bridges is built out
US 31 projected build out is 2017
US 31 improvements will include an overpass at 111` Street and interchange at 116 Street
Traffic analysis looks at existing traffic, future traffic via trip generation, and forecasts
Traffic analysis computes 2% annual growth rate considered realistic
INDOT computes 2% or less for their corridor
Traffic capacity analysis looked at development in phases phase I retail, phase II retail and
multi family, phase III retail, multi family plus office
Capacity of intersection is efficiency of intersection
Most municipal level of service is acceptable
Level of Service "F" is greater than 50 seconds wait time
Study includes four major intersections and access points
Trip generations computed using ITT Trip Generation Manual collects data, determines
how many cars in/out of site based on traffic pattern one is internal trip, one is by -pass trip
Recommend two -lane approach on four quadrants and two -lane roundabout to get to levels A
and B at 116 Street and Illinois
Recommend two -lane roundabout and two -lane approach now at 116 and Springmill; right
turn pass -by lanes allow for right turn without entering roundabout
111` and Illinois Street analyzed as a roundabout would work at this location because Illinois
Street will be a four -lane road
Springmill at 111 Street working at levels of service A and B in the AM now PM peak hours
can achieve all A's
Mike McBride explained the logic of one -lane approach at Springmill roundabout the City wanted to
maintain Springmill as a 2 -lane road assumption was that improvements to US 31 would be made
never anticipated that traffic would come off US 31 and divert to Springmill. City also anticipated the
construction of Illinois Street which would take pressure off Springmill Road. Theory is that if you
provide an easy alternative, traffic will go there we wanted to maintain a lower capacity and volume
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scenario; also intended to have Illinois Street in place by now to relieve that pressure. Illinois Street
would have supplied relief to Springmill Road has already hit 20 -year traffic projections may not
have happened if other roadway improvements had been completed.
Traffic Overview Continued, Steve Fehribach:
111 to Springmill once Illinois goes all the way thru, probably will not need a roundabout at
that intersection
Right in/right out no capacity problems
Cannot put right in/right out across from full access point
Need two controlled accesses along Illinois Street will not decrease capacity of Illinois Street
Integrity capacity and efficiency
No traffic cops, and no traffic signals; improvements include accel/decel lanes
2.4 units per acre would necessitate these improvements, except for northbound bypass lane
Further explanations of Traffic Impact Analysis
Committee Questions /Comments:
Concerned about 106' Springmill Road Traffic
Traffic is a major concern
If Illinois is not completed, then 106 Springmill traffic will worsen problem is no east/west
movement because of speed on the roundabout
US 31 will be completed as well as Illinois Street at some point in future
Heavy southbound and eastbound on Springmill in am peak hours
The Bridges build out year 2020 Illinois Street and US 31 improvements completion 2017
Projected Overpass at I I I" and US 31
Mike McBride: There will be a bridge over Meridian US 31 at 11 V h Street, year 2017, however
subject to change. Illinois will be the equivalent of Hazel Dell no plans to widen Springmill Road in
the foreseeable future. There will be more traffic on Illinois than Springmill, but not sufficiently
Charlie Frankenberger. At DP /ADLS approval, petitioner will submit plans for a second look
City Engineer Mike McBride's Comments: Illinois Street will provide necessary relief for Springmill
Road, but it will be in layers. DOCS pushed for additional, internal connectivity within the site which
offsets the burden onto public streets. The Engineering Dept agrees with means and methods presented
by A F Engineering; agree with the 2% growth factor, but it is probably conservative. Year 2020
projected outside Illinois and US 31 improvements.
Questions /Comments from Public:
Ron Houck, representing Spring Mill Place and Williams Mill 2% growth factored into traffic
analysis done for Clarian growth was more like 2 /2 Improvements at 116` and Springmill
What is the timing? This traffic study was done only in the context of this development. The
Mormon Temple will be coming soon —will there be a significant enlargement of roundabout
diameter remain same or pushed out to be larger? Only relief is 2lanes throttling into
roundabout. Concern is what happens today at roundabout is that one direction can get
control and that is what shuts off traffic today. 2 lanes can be shut off if sufficient traffic is
entering roundabout; unless change in diameter of roundabout, do not see a relief. Also, at
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111 Street, over 1200 cars at 106` Street, at 40 mph- how much space between cars to enter?
Since Clarian was built, 20 -year growth seen in 6 or 7 years that is not necessarily being
accounted for. This development only taken into consideration —not the church, not other
development. Illinois was anticipated in 2008 at time Clarian was built. Until Illinois is
improved and there is a bridge, traffic will divert into residential neighborhoods. At build -out,
2,000 car trips in the AM peak hours and 5,000 in evening peak traffic is a major concern for
people in the area. Without a concrete plan for Illinois Street at completion, there is no relief
for traffic. Relief is 2 -lane Springmill and 2 -lanes to 465 we need safeguards for Springmill
Road.
Steve Fehribach: Growth rate over and above development traffic 2 /i% growth rate. Springmill
Road, Illinois Street timing and roundabouts standards two -lane approaches and two lane
roundabout is a gap acceptance. Level of service is critical. Volume on Springmill Road; at
completion of Illinois Street, traffic will divert over to Illinois from Springmill traffic Level of
Service "A" with minor improvements.
Gerald Danquist, Williams Mill Subdivision. Traveling to the meeting this evening, traffic was
backed -up from I I I th to 106` Street; concern regarding getting in/out of his development
cannot get out onto Springmill Road cannot make a left turn in the AM hours and cannot at
night because traffic is backed up past the entry to his subdivision. If Illinois Street were
finished, it might be better.
Martin Meisenheimer, Williams Mill. This development pre- supposes that Illinois Street will
go to I I I th Street. Traffic is already a problem on Springmill during rush hour. The two curb
cuts proposed onto Springmill from the PUD will only compound traffic problems and should
be condemned and eliminated. A development of the magnitude proposed would bring light,
noise and automobile pollution, and overwhelm the residential setting and sour quality of life.
Steve Fehribach stated that Illinois Street will go to I I I th Street.
Jill Meisenheimer, Williams Mill. If the development exists and people cannot get in/out, it
will kill the development and by -pass the development. Concern regarding number of curb cuts
onto Springmill Road -100 yards north of the proposed development is another cut for the
Mormon Temple.
Tom Crowley, developer: If Illinois Street is not extended past I I I 1 Street, there will be a roundabout
constructed. Mr. Crowley is aware of the problem, but if we fix this, we will not have this problem.
The developer is pouring millions of dollars into the project and of course, would like for it to succeed.
Mike McBride agrees with the construction of the roundabout.
Woody Rider: We (the City Council) are on a mission to get Illinois Street built. If this project goes
thru, it will be an economic engine to get the road built.
Regarding roundabout at I I I 1 and Springmill what will make timing work?
Mike McBride's response: Assuming this project comes in phases, we requested intersections be
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analyzed more closely at full build -out scenario. It is extremely likely that it will be in place, but if
Illinois Street is not, engineering will make it a point to address each intersection we need Illinois
Street as part of the deal.
Question from Commission: Easements and right -of -way already purchased for Illinois Street?
Mike McBride's Response: No, does not totally exist today. City has purchased right -of -way at 100
Street.
Tom Crowly: Currently in discussion with property owners for right -of -way.
Zeff Weiss, attorney in attendance, said his client would be favorable to the road coming through it
would open access for his client.
Sue Westermeier: Concern on a global point looking at the global picture, not just this project, this is
a large area and maybe not representative of the west side. If it were homes being developed on this
property, it would still need to be done. Are we planning appropriately for the entire area?
Mike McBride's response: The issue with traffic congestion is enormous cannot stop improvements
on the roadway system —the community is growing —it will be in a state of continual construction until
there is a shift in the way we live and work —that is a reality. Because of the way budgets recycle, we
can only do so much with the funds. The goal is to make things move more efficiently for that window
of time things will shift significantly in that window of time. We are focused on making
improvements to the nodes; have not added travel lanes, just made better utilization
Leo Dierckman what is Westfield doing with Springmill Road?
Mike McBride's response: unknown or same philosophy as Carmel focusing dollars spent on
intersections
Ed Scarbeck, Springmill Place immediate question is the Mormon Temple and whether or not
it was factored into traffic plans
Mike McBride, Dept of Engineering: The Bridges development would be responsible for their portion
of the traffic burden as well as the City. Illinois Street south of 111 `h Street is accepted by the City
this project will share a portion of the burden of the traffic impact scenario done with Illinois Street
stopping at I I 11 Street.
Zeff Weiss comments: It is not the capacity on Springmill Road but rather the intersections if there
were double -wide roundabout at 111 and I I6` would not have the backup at peak hours
Woody Rider doing something to slow entry traffic would improve capacity at intersections
Ron Houck: Growth projected by Clarion at full build -out estimated 2003 Does the right -of -way on
Springmill exist today? Has this development and has the Mormon Temple dedicated right -of -way? If
the projects fail, how does that impact the roundabout?
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Woody Rider: If you create breaks it increase traffic flow, but it would be slower thru the roundabouts
Mike McBride: Springmill Road is efficient for a 2 -lane roadway for the volume it carries people are
migrating off 31 and using Springmill Road. Right -of -way does not exist at 111 t Even without this
development, the City will still purchase right -of -way for the construction of Illinois Street. Any
development accelerated at this corner pushes the need for construction of Illinois Street.
Leo Dierckman: What does the State plan? Mike McBride says the State prefers a tight diamond
their argument is the closeness of Pennsylvania Street.
End of Presentation/Comments /Questions.
The Special Studies Committee will meet next on Tuesday, March 29 at 6:00 PM; topic will be design
and architecture. Members of the public should get written questions to DOCS staff prior to the
meeting.
The meeting adjourned at 7:55 PM.
Steve Stromquist, Cflairperson
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