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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Sub 07-05-11 CA T q� i Rs 0 f c r: e l _ii CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE JULY 5, 2011 Meeting LOCATION: CAUCUS ROOMS, 2 FLR TIME: 6:00 P.M. CARMEL CITY HALL (DOORS OPEN AT 5:30 P.M.) ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, IN 46032 The Subdivision Committee met to discuss the following item: Representing the Committee: Brad Grabow, Chairperson; Judy Hagan; Steve Lawson; Ephraim Wilfong, John Adams Representing the Department: Angie Conn, Planner; Lisa Stewart, Recording Secretary Representing the Petitioner: Jim Shinaver N &F, Jon Dobosiewicz N &F Walt Justus Owner, Chris White Consultant, Dan Ware InterDesign (Architect) Rick Reynolds EMHT (Engineer), Robert Markette Attorney with Benesch, Friedlander, Coplan Aronoff LLP Street Overlay. Filed by Charlie Frankenberger of Nelson Frankenberger, on behalf of Justus Homes. Of Counsel: John Molitor 1. TABLED TO AUG. 2: Docket No. 11040005 ADLS Amend: Ed Martin Signage. d Overlay Zonc. Filed by George Small, AIA, of Design Point Inc. 2 -3. Docket No. 11020013 DP /ADLS: Woodland Terrace CCRC. The applicant seeks site plan design approval for a continuing care retirement community (CCRC) on 7 acres. The application also seeks the following zoning waiver request: Docket No. 11030006 ZW: Ordinance Chapter 23.08.01.D: front building setback. The site is located at 136 Street (Smokey Row Rd.) and Pro Med Lane, and is zoned B- 6 /Business, within the US 31/ Meridian Street Overlay. Filed by Charlie Frankenberger of Nelson Frankenberger, on behalf of Justus Homes, Inc. 3. Docket No. 11020013 DP /ADLS: Woodland Terrace CCRC The applicant seeks site plan design approval for a continuing care retirement community (CCRC) on 7 acres. The applicant also seeks for the following zoning waiver request: Page 1 of 1 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317- 571 -2417 July 5, 2011 Meeting Minutes Docket No. 11030006 ZW: Ordinance Chapter 23.08.01.D: front building setback. The site located at 136 Street and Pro Med Lane, and is zoned B -6 /Business, within the US 31 /Meridian Overview: Jon Dobosiewicz presented for the petitioner: Reviewed changes made in the plan for the project The building set back has been adjusted 10 ft. Parking lot has been adjusted an additional 58 ft. Tree preservation, open space area has been increased by 40% The garage that was closest to Pro -Med Drive has been eliminated The building closest to the neighbors in Kensington Place was reduced from 4 stories to 3, the parapet was also modified to 1 story Elevations have been outlined in different colors in Tab 4 to show renderings of the elevation as seen from the east of the development. This would be what the neighbors see. On the southeast wing of the building half of the fourth floor was removed along with the parapet Mr. Dobosiewicz reviewed the cross section in Tab 6, and clarified that this area meets the. Ordinance Requirements. He further indicated that the even though the development met the Ordinance Requirement, Justus did add an additional 10 ft. set back and the reduction of one story. Previously the building was 67.33 ft. from the property line and was 43.33 ft. tall, it is now 84 ft. back from the property line and is 40 ft. high There will be 24 additional plantings Tab 10 provides an illustration of the location of the off -site path as currently proposed. The basement area of the building is centrally located and does not extend out to other areas. Tab 12 shows the building perspective from Smokey Row. An exhibit was distributed showing a shadow line study that was produced by the architect. This rendering was produced using December 21 when the sun is lowest in the sky. All of the shaded area falls into the Justus site and not onto the Kensington site. Staff Comments: Angie Conn indicated that John and Virginia Kerr has sent out emails to Committee members. They also requested that the Committee not vote on the Dockett to night due to the information that was discussed at the Friday, July 1 meeting. The Department's stance is that we recommend approval. The Petitioner has met the Ordinance requirements and meets it more now. Subcommittee Comments Additional information has been sent to the entire Plan Commission so that they will have the benefit of the most up -to -date information. Feedback has been received from members stated, however the Chairman indicated that there were not comments that the Petitioner had not heard previously. The Chairman indicated that there is a lot of new information before the Committee tonight, most of it as a result of the meeting between the Petitioner and Kensington Place neighbors held on Friday. Typically the Committee Page 2 of 1 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317 571 -2417 July 5, 2011 Meeting Minutes receives information approximately 10 days in advance of the meeting. He would like to see this go to the Plan Commission this month. o Angie also suggested a special meeting next week. Asked what was lost when the 10 parking spaces were added and 10 ft. of building space was moved. The Petitioner responded that some garage space was lost and the building was actually moved the building 15 ft. on a diagonal on the site in an east /west direction which moved the building 10 ft. west. o The Committee appreciates that the Petitioner has taken initiative to meet with the neighbors and have done things to work toward a solution. Acknowledged that Justus has given u p land that they will not be able to generate income from and will pay taxes on. What constraints to you have when you slide the building on a diagonal are we faced with Code problems, ordinance problems. The Petitioner responded that there are no Ordinance problems. This change will not have an adverse impact Asked why the 4 story parapet is 10.7' 5/8" why is the parapet that high? Petitioner: It was thought from a proportion perspective that this height looked better, particularly with the dormers that are being provided. Committee asked if there is any possibility those parapets could be reduced to the line of site as depicted in Tab 7, the second picture. It shows the lowest line of site actually cutting through the 10 ft. parapet, maybe by 2 ft. At a minimum could the parapet be reduced by that amount if not more? o Petitioner indicated that at minimum they could be, since they are not structural. The Petitioner stated that with the dormers it may not look quite right, but the petitioners will give this request more thought. Clarification was requested regarding garages and the spaces added at the north end of the property. Is the number of parking spaces static or is there a net gain? Petitioner indicated that there are the same numbers of spaces. Brad also asked the cost of garage rental each month. Petitioner indicates from 50 $150 per month. Asked about the service drive when bringing it in for Pro Med drive what are the constraints? Petitioner indicates that this was discussed with the Carmel Fire Department and talked about access to the building in terms of firefighting and they preferred an access off of Smokey Row to get to the building. So this road was set up and an access road for deliveries and firefighting. The road is a gentle slope. Questioned lighting fixtures that would be visible on the east side Petitioner indicated that lights are placed in the ceilings of the balconies light will not e cast out in a sideways direction Complete lighting may be found in the April and June packets under Tab 9 What is the mix of units? We did not lose total number of units, but did lose one bedroom units, these were converted into studio units, changed the mix, but not the total. Have the neighbors seen the new plans prior to this evening? Petitioner: on Friday we reviewed potential revisions, took some renderings based on ideas we received from the neighbors. They are seeing in detail those changes that were discussed last Friday. Is this project still being done in phases? Petitioner waiting to review cost analysis. Page 3 of 1 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDLANA 46032 317 571 -2417 July 5, 2011 Meeting Minutes Can changes be made after this approval if done in two phases NO What changes will be made to the landscaping? Petitioner will have a consulting arborist on site during construction who will work with the arborist for the City. Will the building footprint be honored? YES inspectors will be aware that this is a tight area. Petitioner indicated they would agree to a DOCS inspection was made prior to the pouring of the footers that verified the building set back Would the Petitioner be willing to do one more study regarding the grade level, and dropping the 0 grade level, just drop it down 3 or 4 feet, that is significant, or at least give the Committee an understanding of what the technical problems are doing that. Petitioner We had to set that basement floor higher that the low point on the site which is the beehive at the property line. If they went lower more mechanical means would be needed to move water. Has the Petitioner received a new ROW easement for the path no easement is needed. Sharon Oldman representing Kensington Place (KP); This was presented as a CCRC, is this a CCRC? It was presented as being 3 levels of care, IL, SNL, NH. Mr. Justus has indicated that a resident would stay here until they needed to go to a nursing home. KP has questioned this repeatedly. Why would residents have to leave to go to a nursing home. If this is not a nursing home, then this does not fit on the City Of Carmel Schedule of Uses. If this is only a retirement community then it is only an apartment and is only low- income these are so small. The rent cannot be equivalent to what is in the City Of Carmel. This project does not look like a CCRC, this is an apartment building with 185 units crammed on 7 acres, it is 4 stories a walk out basement which is a story. Neighbors are not to be deprived of light and air. KP residents feel this project will deprive them of light and air. Ms. Oldman was in contact with Debbie Beers, of the Indiana State Department of Health and discussed CCRC's. Ms. Beers indicated if there was to be a Registered Nurse onsite, this has to be a licensed facility, otherwise the RN cannot provide wound care or give injections Asked that Justus Company review the 11 reasons why Holiday Inn project was denied. Almost half of those reasons still apply to this project. Issues still remain regarding trees being removed. Questions regarding drainage have been raised. Mr. Doxtater has spoken with someone from the City who indicates that the drainage plan is in progress. Drainage is a major issue for KP; they see where the water flows into the retention pond located in KP. Several Ordinances are being questioned, along the 31 Overlay there is not to be any parking in front of the building, it is to be in the rear, or if necessary to the side. Every depiction shows parking right by Smokey Row Rd. and when previously discussed, KP residents were told the front of the building is along Smokey Row Rd Parking is in the wrong place against the Ordinance, and it is not being addressed. Page 4 of 1 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317 571 -2417 July 5, 2011 Meeting Minutes The Meridian Corridor Overlay also states that the longest line of the building must be parallel to the road. This is not parallel to Meridian. Why are there Ordinances if they are not going to be followed? How tall is the building going to be. From the Sullivan's dining room straight out to where the walkout basement is going to be at the same level of their first floor. Also the parapet should be counted. The ordinance does not say building line, it indicates the building and is very clear. That is why issues that are being agreed to by Staff and Justus are based on interpretation are completely contrary to what the Ordinance says. Committee Response: Brad Grabow stated that it is not unusual for engineering studies to follow Plan Commission decisions. There are paid staff on the City's payroll whose professional job and responsibility it is to address issues of engineering and drainage and tree preservation and this body delegates its trust to those professionals and as an indication of that trust it is also a very common that the work by those individuals is completed after the work of the Plan Commission. There are instances where the preference and/or requirement to see that work prior to PC decision, but the common practice is we do development plan review, then they do the engineering around that approved development plan. Per the Ordinance height is defined based on feet, not stories and we do not have except in limited circumstances and in the Comprehensive Plan itself, which is only a guideline, height restrictions are expressed not in terms stories or including or not including walkout basements, but in terms of height from the ground of the principal floor up to the roof top and excluding by definition the parapet. That does not always sit well with everyone on the Plan Commission, but that it is the way the measurement if defined. Petitioner Response: Atty. Shinaver responded to the question in regard to the 3 levels of care. On May 4t1 we did have quite a discussion regarding the 3 levels of care and at no time was anything swept under the rug. There were questions regarding the skilled nursing component at the June 21' meeting under exhibit 12 we provided additional information regarding. Per DOCS staff, CCRC is a permitted use on this real estate and we meet the definition of this use. If in the future there was a concern with complying with Carmel's definition that would be an issue that the staff would enforce. However, the way we propose the facility to operate we meet that definition. Atty. Shinaver introduced Bob Marquette, Esq. whose area of expertise is health care. Atty. Marquette distributed a memo he had prepared answering concerns of the neighbors. Bob Marquette o Addressed whether or not the project meets Carmel's definition of a CCRC. The remonstrators feel that the facility needs to be a skilled nursing facility to quality for a CCRC. This is not a case. It is only required to provide 3 levels of care. Justus does intend to provide 3 levels of care, independent living (not an apartment complex), not defined by any governing body or regulatory group. In a very narrow sense of the word it is an apartment, but that does not mean it is Page 5 of 1 ONE CIVIC SQUARE C ARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317 571 -2417 July 5, 2011 Meeting Minutes not a continuing care facility. The difference between Woodland and an apartment complex, are for instance, community social functions, transportation. As the individuals who live in the community age, they have access to other services and supports. You do not have to be licensed to provide assisted living services. You can become a Medicaid provider which has a registration requirement and that just means you are accepting Medicaid waiver dollars. As the folk's age they can receive more services at this development and do not have move into another facility i.e., nursing home, most do not want to go into a facility. Then as their needs progress they can go into the skilled nursing. When you call the State Department of Health and depending on who you speak with you can get different answers. You can provide skilled nursing outside of a facility; you do not have to be licensed. Woodland can provide all of these services without being a nursing facility. Fewer nursing homes are being built, people who need these services do not want to go into a facility. They want to obtain services through home health, house call doctors, etc. do they can stay at home. The object here is that this is the person's home, and they are able to receive services without leaving home. There will be Registered Nurses in the facility and they will hold the appropriate licensure. Tab 11, is the floor plan of the basement, showing a therapy room, nursing wellness area. Committee Comments: Mr. Adam's concern is not with the ordinance, it is with differentiating between the different types of care provided. We do have a responsibility to do something that could jeopardize the health of our people. How do you manage care with the type of structure you have. Would like a better understanding how to manage health and mental issues with just assisted living. Will visit another Justus facility Petitioner Comments: In regard to light and air the shadows will be contained within their own site development. Set back is 84 ft to closest property line and building height of approximately 61 ft., and along property edge is 40 ft.. Additional information submitted to day should cover concerns from neighbors. All drainage plans have been included in the all brochures submitted to the Plan Commission. Reviewed previously outlined changes. Meeting all ordinance requirements Longest side of the building no frontage on US 31, frontage on Smokey Row and Pro Med we meeting all the standards of the ordinance. Page 6 of 1 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317- 571 -2417 July 5, 2011 Meeting Minutes Walt Justus comments: Is not asking to be treated as an exception to the rule, have always tried to follow the ordinance. We need to maximize the site. Very comfortable with what we have presented for the site. This is not our first go round with neighbors. We worked together and put a plan together that was amendable We are being made the exception, mud slinging, smoke screen, we are not newcomers to this market we are developers of fine quality masonry buildings senior living communities' as well residential housing. I have chosen what I feel is the best team possible to develop this property. We are defending, defending and coming up with changes upon changes, upon changes When does it end Would not have started this project if it did not meet the ordinance Brad Grabow comments: I feel there is a lot yet for the Committee to digest within this new information. We did not receive this information in enough time to review in a timely manner Not appropriate to render a decision on that kind of timing Two commitments all proposed improvements including the courtyard area be constructed as part of phase I and even expand as to say if there ends up being a roof top component to the green space that it could be a substitute or fulfill this condition, second, the Department would certify to its satisfaction the proper site location of the footers before they are poured. Two conditions would be BZA approval of all appropriate or necessary variances and if Brad needs to go to the BZA to testify on behalf of the variances he will do that. The variances are critical to other subjective enhancements; the other condition the City Engineering approval of the drainage plan. Ephraim Wilfong comments: Accept what staff has already approved Disappointed that this had to come back again and not in favor in extending this beyond tonight and should have a favorable recommendation. John Adams comments Need more time to study Wants a special meeting —next week Petitioner: Not much more that can be changed will revise what can be revised but will need time to make sure PC gets packets John Adams moved that we continue this discussion this process a week from tonight, Tuesday, July 12. Tabling this motion to 5 -0 approved to table until next week. Special meeting will be held, Tuesday, July 12 at 6:00 p.m. Page 7 of l ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARAMEL, INDIANA 46032 317 -571 -2417 July 5, 2011 Meeting Minutes Meeting adjourned: 8:10 pm 1 l V 4r Br Gra ow, Ch rperson isa Stewart, Recording Secretary Page 8 of 1 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317- 571 -2417