HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes TAC 12-20-00Carmel /Clay Technical Advisory Committee Minutes
December 20, 2000
Members present:
Laurence Lillig Carmel DOCS
Scott Brewer Carmel Urban Forester
John Lester Carmel Parks Rec.
Dick Hill Carmel Eng.
Rick McClain Cinergy
John South Ham. Co. Soil Water
Chuck Shupperd Indiana Gas
Steve Cash Ham. Co. Surveyor
Gary Hoyt Carmel Fire Dept.
Steve Broermann Ham Co. Highway
Hazel Dell Corner, Lot 1 Osco Drug (180 -00 SP; 181 -00 ADLS; SU- 198 -00; V -199-
00 through V 205 -00).
The site is located at 5790 East 131 Street. The site is zoned B- 3/business. Filed by J.
Murray Clark of Clark Quinn Moses Clark for American Partners.
Attorney Murray Clark represented the applicant in this proposal for development on
1.69 acres. The location was cited for the Osco Drug Store that will have a drive thru
element. All TAC members should have received plans. Dan Schnur, Schneider
Corporation, was introduced. Mr. Murray explained the BZA aspects of this case to be
heard on January 8, 2001. He requested TAC comments.
Dick Hill's comments dealt with the overriding issue of how the entire development will
be done. Usually, the developers do the infrastructure. Mr. Hill does not believe that is
the case with Hazel Dell Corner. The Engineering Department will not approve permits
until the infrastructure is approved. Dan Schnur proposes to take the set of overall plans
and incorporate the Osco changes. He will then resubmit the plans. This will indicate
how the overall project is changing to accommodate Osco. The western exit drive is to
be brought down quicker to provide a smoother entrance drive. He will make certain the
storm sewer pipes are sized correctly. The routing of sanitary sewer changed on the
overall. It will not tie into the existing sanitary manhole near the intersection of 131 and
Hazel Dell. It will tie into an existing sanitary line that runs through the site. They will
bring the sanitary from the west to Lot 1. They will also be able to serve Lots 2 and 3
through that route as well. Mr. Schnur will submit plans that reflect those changes at the
time Osco is resubmitted. Dick Hill stated there are other issues beyond water and
sanitary sewer. Bonds will need to be posted. Dan Schnur is working on that. His
clients at Osco were asked to sign off on the overall plans by someone at Olympia
Partners. Mr. Schnur was then asked to check these plans. It is important to clarify who
is working on what. Osco may provide actual usage information to help the Engineering
Department's calculation of fees.
Jeff Kendall had no comments.
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Chuck Shupperd said gas is available.
John Lester has the same concerns as Dick Hill. There appears to be a change in the
asphalt path. Mr. Lester needs to see the extension of the path. He also needs
information about the treatment of the access road. This may be the developer's
responsibility. Mr. Lester needs to know how they will do the curb cuts and access. It
would be helpful to identify the crosswalks.
Scott Brewer has written a letter and met with the petitioner a number of times.
Replacement with live trees must be guaranteed for trees removed in the City's right of
way. Mr. Brewer suggests removing the note to "spray river birches once a year They
are not susceptible to bores.
John South wrote a letter. Dan Schnur will incorporate those notes into the plan. There
is a high potential for soil erosion. Mr. Schnur said there is a standard note placed on
drawings indicating when the anti erosion measures will be implemented. He will add
additional notes.
Gary Hoyt sent a letter to Dan Schnur. All of the fire sprinkler equipment will be located
in the storage area in the northwest corner of the building. The Fire Department would
prefer a remote connection. Mr. Schnur will set a hydrant and fire department connection
at the landscape area in the northwest portion of the site. There is a water main on the
north side of the access site. A Knox box is acceptable to the petitioner. The access area
should be closest to the riser room.
Rick McClain got all the easements in place. It is unclear who is the overall developer.
Dan Schnur agreed. The best option is a plan that provides electric service to their site
and has potential to tie into the other sites. Mr. Schnur stated the lots will be sold
individually. There is no contractor yet. Some one needs to meet on site with Cinergy.
Dan Schnur agreed to a meeting. He said the project was going out to bid next month
with an anticipated start date of early spring work.
Laurence Lillig commented, in regard to the plat, the name on sheet one is Hazel Dell
Corner. It should be Hazel Dell Subdivision. The scale mandated by the Ordinance is 1
inch to 50 feet. The subdivider's phone number needs to be included. The zoning may
be removed or change the title to "Zoning at Time of Platting The source of title must
be included. East 131 Street South must be specified. The name is Hazel Dell Parkway
not road. Dick Hill cannot recall why the City settled for less right of way than the
thoroughfare plan called for, but he and Laurence Lillig remember the conversation. The
commission certificate is listed twice on sheet two. It is needed on the first and last
sheets of a plat. The variances for this case will be heard at the January 8, 2001 BZA
meeting along with the special use.
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Mayflower Park, Block 1, Lots 4 -6 (197 -00 SP)
The site is located in the 9800 block of Mayflower Drive. The site is zoned I -1 /industrial.
Filed by Jamie Browning of Browning Investments
Jamie Browning presented the secondary plat for three lots on the site and introduced
Andy Geroom, FRP, Inc. This conditional secondary plat was filed for this project
several years ago. Thesubmission is for final plat approval for Lots 4, 5, and 6. The
property has access from Mayflower Park Drive and 99 Street. Building permit
applications will have more specific details regarding what is actually being built. Final
approval is requested for the Secondary Plat of these three sites.
Dick Hill had no comments.
Jeff Kendall asked Laurence Lillig to comment on frontage issues. Lot 5 has one access
between Lot 1 and 2. Lot 4 is accessed from 99 street. Lot 6 is being purchased by
Irving Materials, owners of the lot to the south. Their access is from 96 Street.
Laurence Lillig stated that Terry Jones mentioned a possible need for variances based on
frontage deficiencies. Lot 6 is in question; it appears there is a setback problem. IMI
intends to build over the line. This property probably should be vacated out of
Mayflower Plat. Jamie Browning inquired about the procedure. Mr. Lillig responded it
is the same process as a primary plat amendment. It needs to be removed from the
secondary plat. Individuals from IMI should meet with staff to discuss whether they
want to build across the line. Jamie Browning will dedicate 99 Street. Mr. Lillig
believes that should solve the problem. The process must remove Lot 6 from the
Mayflower Plat. A primary plat amendment should be filed with the Plan Commission
because this ground has gone through the platting process.
Chuck Shupperd was concerned about access to the two lots. He understands the
clarification made.
John Lester and Scott Brewer had no comments.
Steve Broermann asked for a new copy of the plat when Lot 6 is removed. It is necessary
to resubmit.
John South and Gary Hoyt had no comments.
Laurence Lillig reviewed the process for Mr. Browning. A primary plat amendment will
seek Plan Commission approval. The scale must be changed to 1 inch equals 100 feet to
make it consistent. The real estate should become one single piece of ground for IMI.
Variances for frontage deficiencies should be discussed with Terry Jones. Mr. Lillig
stated the variance and plat should go together.
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North Haven Development Plans (162 -OOZ)
The site is located northwest of East 96 Street and Gray Road. The site is zoned S-
1 /residence.
Filed by James J. Nelson of Nelson Frankenberger for C.P. Morgan.
The case was presented by Attorney Charlie Nelson. He introduced Mark Boyce, C.P.
Morgan, Greg Snelling, CSO, and John Hart, J.C. Hart Co. in connection with their
request to annex and rezone the 42 -acre parcel outlined in the photo to R -5 for multi
family and office side. The location of the parcel was cited. Bottamiller Enterprises is
the house directly to the south. Construction plans have been submitted; the petitioner has
returned to TAC for any additional comments. Greg Snelling is now the lead contact on
this project.
Dick Hill sent a letter to Bob Doster on December 4, 2000 expressing concern over Gray
Road drainage issues and the passing blister. Mr. Snelling said the geometry has been
worked out with the County. The stacking should be correct. However, Greg Snelling
will be happy to make any changes if necessary. The connection changes are being
determined. The infrastructure and sanitary sewer must be accepted prior to building
permits being issued. Greg Snelling has received IDEM approval; the petitioner will
speak with Carmel Utilities. Mark Boyce wants to begin work in February. Dick Hill
said the Board of Works approvals must be obtained first. The change to an R5 zone
requires development plan approval. Laurence Lillig stated the petitioner must plat
because they will utilize access easements. There is an anticipation that the commercial
and residential will be separated into two different properties. Mr. Lillig stated R5 is a
planned district in the Ordinance which makes it subject to the provisions of Chapter 24.
It is similar to the M3 district and must go through the full development plan process.
Mr. Hart desires to pay for park impact fees before the new charges take affect in about
six months. Their economics were not planned with new fees. Mr. Lillig added the
effective date is for the increased fees will be June 18, 2001. Charlie Frankenberger
understands that everything south of their property, with the exclusion the Bottamiller
Enterprise, has been annexed to the City. He further stated, at the last meeting, Lucy
Snyder suggested they include more than just their land for annexation. Mr.
Frankenberger asked if it was beneficial to the City to bring in Bottamiller and anything
else to the north. Mr. Lillig does not know; this may be a political question. Regarding
the Bottamiller property, the department does not like annexation pockets. Bottamiller
Enterprises may be opposed. The petitioner will lose time if they must wait for a
determination of annexation. Annexation should not affect permitting. Dick Hill stated
when the area south of this property was annexed long ago, the City went to the center
line of Gray Road. This is now Hamilton County jurisdiction. With new annexation, one
needs to take the entire right of way of Gray Road. If the outlot is annexed, it may be
beneficial to take the right of way of Gray Road down to the center line of 96 Street.
Laurence Lillig added the City would still be annexing a portion of Mr. Bottamiller's
property. Mr. Lillig encouraged Mark Boyce to begin the submission process. He has
missed the cut off date for the February meeting. The primary plat will be based on how
the commercial piece is divided between commercial and residential. It will be important
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to split the large block first. Dick Hill requires all approvals before taking this project to
the Board of Public Works.
Jeff Kendall believes this matter was at the September TAC meeting. There will be 266
apartments and commercial development. There will be about 24 buildings.
Approximately one half of the area is taken up by a lake. There are 23 buildable acres.
Chuck Shupperd stated gas is available for the apartments. The petitioners responded
that gas might be used in the community center. However, the apartments are totally
electric. Citizens Gas is coming back with a plan for gas use.
John Lester would like a path along Gray Road. There is a path inside but he wants a
connection coming down to 96 Street. Greg Snelling believes there is an eight -foot
asphalt path within the right of way that extends along the frontage. The new Ordinance
and Thoroughfare Plan requires a ten -foot path.
Scott Brewer has no additional comments; he has been working with the petitioner.
Steve Cash understands this parcel is in the process of being annexed. It should be
complete in the next three to six months and prior to construction of any buildings. Mr.
Cash requested a copy of their paper work. Charlie Frankenberger stated they might have
to amend their petition for annexation to address the request by one of the City Council
members. That person wants more real estate to be included.
Steve Broermann stated if construction starts before annexation, a permit would be
needed from the Highway Department to come in off of Gray Road. The County attorney
has developed an agreement, to be accepted by the County Commissions, that allows the
City to have complete jurisdiction of the project pending the annexation. Mr. Broermann
will mail a copy to the petitioner. Charlie Frankenberger will give Steve Broermann a
copy of the revised annexation petition. Mr. Cash wants all of Gray Road south of the
northern border of their property.
John South explained that Greg Snelling has taken care of their comments.
Gary Hoyt asks for another set of plans. He understands the three story buildings will be
sprinkled.
Rick McClain had no comments. This area is serviced by IPL.
Laurence Lillig had no other comments.
Charlie Frankenberger indicated, as part of the plat approval process, his client will ask
for some waivers. He questions whether a variance would be required or would a waiver
be sufficient to remove 62 of the woodlands. The petitioner will reforest 1.13 acres
resulting in a net loss of 25.9 The Ordinance does not provide that one can set off
their reforestation. The reduction is greater than the 15 permitted to vary by a waiver.
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Laurence Lillig will consider this question. He stated a waiver will be handled at the
time of primary plat. If this is needed to accommodate the open space requirement, he
encouraged Mr. Frankenberger to subdivide the commercial from the residential. Mr.
Lillig stated the Ordinance is imprecise in that area. The primary plat action is the
correct time.
141 -OOZ
Mark Boyce spoke on the future CP Morgan 7.5 acre rezone project at the north side of
1 16 Street, west of Range Line Road and east of Guilford Road. The rezone request is
from R1 to B5. The B5 office use is intended as transition use between more is within the
floodway. Mr. Boyce briefly described their intended development and the buffer plans.
Laurence Lillig needs something in writing to amend their petition from an M3 to a B5.
John Lester stated the crossing, over the Monon Trail, would require a pedestrian
crossing. His office does not want crossings except at intersections. A path will be
needed on 116 Street.
Jeff Kendall asks about the white house he believes is on the property. Mr. Boyce stated
there is a bungalow there. The church location was given. Part of the parcel is wooded.
There is also an open field.
Steve Cash stated the allowable discharge is .25 cfs per acre. The Ordinance prohibits
filling the flood plain. However, his department will accommodate fill if there is other
storage created. This is a flood plain; it is not just flood way.
Mark Boyce would like this case heard at the January Plan Commission. Laurence Lillig
responded that given the unique features Monon Trail, Rosemead Subdivision, and the
floodway) this case should again be heard at TAC.
St. Mark's United Methodist Church (Special Use) SU- 225 -00
The site is located at 4780 East 126 Street. The site is zoned R -1/ residence. Filed by
Paula A. Wright of The Partenheimer Group for St. Mark's United Methodist Church.
Mark Van Allen presented the project. He is the Vice President of Partenheimer Group
and represented St. Mark's in regard to their proposal to expand and add on to the church.
The location of this 6 acre site was described. The church was founded in the early
1980's. Two additions have been constructed since that time. Mr. Van Allen was their
architect in the mid 1990's when a 2.5 million dollar addition was constructed. Weihe
Engineers will provide civil engineer services. Greg Rasmussen is the project manager.
The property has been surveyed. The church is oriented at a 45 degree angle to the
intersection of 136 and Gray Road. The entrance is at the north. There is a 500 seat
sanctuary, administrative offices, and Christian education space. There is a partial
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basement with a partial sprinkler system. The rest of the church is built with rated wall
construction separated with two hour fire walls. This scheme will be maintained. The
success of the last addition has increased membership. A church study resulted in a
decision keep the sanctuary in its present size but to accommodate additional
programming and youth services needs. This long range project will be accomplished in
three phases. The congregation can afford the first phase in 2001. The master plan
includes: an addition on the east side to provide youth ministry space, adult education
space to the south, and the last phase will wrap the south and east sides with the
construction of a new chapel. A Knox box will be used. They do not plan to connect the
addition to the sprinkler system. There is a fire hydrant on the south side of the site.
Additional men's and women's restrooms will be added. This might result in increased
usage fees. Previously, it was determined that appropriate usage fees were paid when the
building was first constructed. Mr. Van Allen welcomes this discussion. Weihe
Engineers has not developed a drainage plan yet. There is a storm sewer on the property
picking up downspouts and the parking lot that goes through a controlled outlet on the
southwest corner of the site. Any additional storm water runoff would be channeled into
that same system. They would not increase the flow of the site. There is a landscape
barrier around the site. Better species could have been chosen. The church is trying to
replace trees. A new landscape plan will be developed by Salsbery Brothers Landscaping
Irrigation. The church wants to supplement plantings on site to meet Carmel
guidelines. This special use will be heard by the Board of Zoning Appeals. The plans
indicate pitched roof sections with some flat roof portions, and the same exterior
materials to be used as possible. Nothing will be above one story. There are no setback
issues. MacDougall Pierce will be their contractor.
Dick Hill will reserve comments until he receives plans.
Jeff Kendall requested plans be especially clear per submittal since so many phases are
anticipated. Their next submittal will only show what the church can do now. Mr. Van
Allen will be back later to talk about future additions. A wall section must be shown for
all the walls.
Chuck Shupperd inquired if it would be necessary to increase load size to accommodate
additional heating loads. It might be necessary to relocate the meter. They need to get a
location on the gas line near fellowship hall. Meter size may need to increase.
John Lester noticed their sidewalk ends on the north side of Gray Road. This must be on
the plans. The sidewalk, north of their drive, should connect up with sidewalk for the
subdivision. Mr. Van Allen agreed.
Scott Brewer asked to look at the plan. Tony, at Salsbery Brothers, is working on this.
Scott will to review these plans. He believes it is time to supplement the landscape plan.
Steve Cash stated no county regulated drains are affected by this.
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John South said any comments would pertain to site design. He does not anticipate
much.
Gary Hoyt inquired about the phase indicated at the top of the plans. Mr. Van Allen
answered this portion would not to be done now.
Rick McClain stated there is a transformer that needs to be relocated. He will meet with
MacDougal Pierce on site.
Laurence Lillig understands that the plans to show Phase I as existing building. Phase II
is what they are considering. An April ground breaking is planned. Mr. Lillig stated
there are time limitations on special use approvals that provide one year for work to
begin. The parking lot is not fully curbed. Part of the perimeter is not curbed. No
changes are proposed for the parking lot. Mr. Van Allen encouraged TAC members to
contact him with any questions. He does not have to respond in writing to comment
letters.
Stoughton R.E. Partners (UV- 227 -00)
The site is located at 1917 East 116 Street. The site is zoned R/1 residence. Filed by
Thomas H. Stoughton of Stoughton R.E. Partners.
Chris King, office manager for Stoughton R.E. Partners, represented Tom Stoughton and
explained the request for a use variance. A bid has been made on a foreclosed house at
1350 East 116 Street. It is east of the Morton Trail. The petitioner wishes to operate a
consulting business and rent office space to an attorney. Renovation will be needed on
the home. It has been empty for two years; plumbing and foundation work is needed.
The house is listed by GMAC. Their offered price has been accepted contingent upon
approval of this use variance. Mr. King clarified that 1917 East 116 Street is the
company's current location. The new site is 1350 East 116 Street.
Dick Hill commented that the house has a well and septic system. Mr. King stated their
desire to have city water and sewer if possible. Dick Hill does not know where the mains
are located. Clay Regional provides sewer service; Carmel provides water. A
commercial curb cut approval is required because the use of the parcel will be changed.
If water is available, the petitioner will have to go to the Board of Public Works. Some
charges will be involved.
Jeff Kendall asked if this out of the flood way. Chris King thinks it is. The property is at
the front edge of Rosemead Commons. Mr. Kendall stated if this property is in the
floodway or fringe, it will adversely affect Carmel's issuance of permits for any upgrade
work to be done there.
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John Lester commented that 116 Street will be widened and a path will be required.
The City will require an easement. Dick Hill would like the right of way dedication now
for 116 Street.
Steve Cash asked about the gravel driveway. It must be paved and curbed. Laurence
Lillig will require additional parking be added. Mr. Cash would like to discuss possible
requirements with the petitioner. The Fertig Regulated Drain is next to this parcel.
Scott Brewer stated there may be landscape issues. Chris King said there a good number
of mature 50 -foot mature oak and walnut trees.
John South has no issues. However, the flood plain is important. The elevation of the
structure needs to be checked.
Gary Hoyt confirmed there is a basement. The Fire Dept might ask for a Knox box.
Rick McClain will meet with the petitioner on site if necessary. He asked to be called
later.
Laurence Lillig asked who directed the petitioner to a use variance. Mr. King said it was
Steve Engelking. A better site plan is not available. Mr. Lillig requested a more
complete site plan showing the location of the parking lot and curbs. A landscape plan is
needed. At their west boundary, C. P. Morgan is pursuing a rezone to B5. Mr. Lillig
thinks this course of action would be appropriate for this property too. A use variance
will not be recommended by the staff but the ultimate decision will be made by the Board
of Zoning Appeals. More detail was requested; a survey of development details is
needed.
Rick McClain left the meeting at 11:40. He plans to return for the case scheduled at 2:00
p.m.
Jeff Kendall asked about ownership of the property. His Department spent a lot of effort
to keep weeds down on this property. He asked the petitioner to take care of this problem
next spring. There may be a lien on the property for the money spent to mow the grass
last summer.
Laurence Lillig described what should be shown on the survey.
Carmel Christian Church (SU 226 -00)
The site is located at 463 East Main Street. The site is zoned R -2 /residence. Filed by
James J. Nelson of Nelson Frankenberger for Carmel Christian Church.
The case was presented by Attorney Jim Nelson. He introduced Jim Johnson, Mark
Smith, MAS Associates, and Joel Fritz, Smith Development and Construction Company.
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The church is located on a small parcel on the south side of Main Street between the old
and new library. The petitioner proposes to expand the church to provide for a one -story
5,000 square foot addition to the existing church. The project was represented in the site
plan displayed by Mr. Nelson. The existing church is shown in a dark color; the hash
marks depict the addition to the church.
Dick Hill sent limited notes to Mark Smith. Revised storm drainage calcs are needed.
There may be more charges. Mr. Hill will prepare additional comments later.
Jeff Kendall confirmed construction will not include a sanctuary. It will be an education
addition.
Chuck Shupperd can relocate the meter if necessary. It is possible that additional load
will require an increase in meter size.
John Lester did not receive plans. However, he has no comments. There is an existing
path in place.
Scott Brewer faxed his comments to the petitioner last night. He does not recommend
two needle pines because of the local soil type. These are highly susceptible to disease.
Mr. Brewer requested a note on the landscape planting details to remove stakes and guy
lines after one year. The root crown needs to be planted at grade level.
Steve Cash had no comments.
John South wrote a comment letter for Jim Nelson. A silt fence is suggested to help
drainage and provide inlet protection.
Gary Hoyt assumes the addition will not be sprinkled. A Knox box is recommended.
Mark Smith agreed.
Laurence Lillig had no comments.
Martin Marietta Materials (Special Use; Development Standards Variance)
The site is located at the northeast corner of East 106 Street and Gray Road. The site is
zoned S -1 /residence. Filed by Thomas H. Engle for Martin Marietta Materials, Inc.
The case was presented by Tom Engle. He introduced Bob Furlong and Max Williams of
Martin Marietta. A packet was sent. The petitioner made two requests. A special use for
mineral extraction and artificial lake on the Mueller property and a variance from the
development standards regarding the open space buffer surrounding the Mueller property.
An aerial was displayed and the location was cited. No development plans were provided
because they are not constructing a building. The location of the current processing plant
was given.
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The natural open space buffer for this special use is required to be 300 feet. The two
considerations are the surface mineral extraction and the underground stone mining. The
area of the Mueller property, which is south of 116 Street, will be conducted from
surface down. The sand and gravel on the property north of 106 street will be dredged.
Then, the stone mining underground will be done from the side. Once stone mining from
the 96 Street operation approaches 106 street, they will go underneath not from the
surface. Regarding the 300 buffer, the petitioner proposed several ideas. They will
increase the buffer to 500 feet where they abut Kingswood Subdivision. They request
permission to reduce the buffer to 100 feet on the other sides of the property. For the
surface operations along the Kingswood Subdivision, they have requested plans to see
how it would look with completed when the buffer is decreased from 300 to 150 feet and
100 feet everywhere else. Mr. Engle displayed a conceptual plan for the property north
of 106 Street showing the artificial lake. Mining operations south of 106 Street were
not shown.
Dick Hill had no comments.
Jeff Kendall's only concern dealt with how close the project is to a residential
subdivision. It will be within 150 feet of the backyards of homes. The surface mining is
within 100 feet of some of the homes now. Bob Furlong explained the slope travels 100
feet down to the lake. The lake will be increased by dredging. For some period of time
there will be 10 to 15 foot sand mounds. The dredge floats in the middle of the water. It
is like a vacuum cleaner with an 80 -foot hose. There is fencing at the current operation.
Tom Engle stated there are currently discussions going on with property owners
regarding the disposition of the property. A lawsuit has been filed by the subdivision that
is separate from these discussions. Martin Marietta is close to making commitments to
the subdivision. These reclamation commitments will eventually give land to the
homeowners. This will be accomplished with an agreement with the Muellers. This
documentation will be obtained by Martin Marietta.
John Lester wants to work on a path on both sides of 106 Street. He wants an easement
to provide a trail from the east to the west within the township. John Lester wants a 12-
foot wide asphalt path. A grant from the DNR has been received to improve the road and
parking. It will start next spring. They want to go along Gray Road and continue to the
park. The Parks Department would like to talk with Martin Marietta about developing
some of the land into a natural area.
Scott Brewer noted the wooded area that is south of the park. The rest of the parcel is
agricultural. There is also some untilled agricultural land with scrubs, etc. Because this
is an unusual development, Scott may have some comments later. North of 106 Street,
the land will become a lake. South of 106 Street it will be open pit mining. Mr. Brewer
is interested in possible reforestation.
Steve Cash understands the petitioner has spoken with Kurt Wanninger from the
Surveyor's office regarding reconstruction of the drain. County Commissioners must
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approve any work to be done. Whenever there is reconstruction, a project must go before
the drainage board, a petition form must be completed, and letters of credit and bonding
will be reviewed. Mr. Cash's office is currently reviewing the design. This can tie in
with the walkway.
Tom Engle asked if they must maintain 75 feet easement on both sides. Mr. Cash
responded Indiana code allows reduction down to 25 feet from the top of the bank. The
Surveyor's office prefers more than that to allow maintenance. A great deal depends on
design. Since this is being relocated, the Surveyor's office might not need 75 feet.
John South has not sent a letter. He asked if there would be any mining on the eastside of
Hazel Dell Parkway. There will be no surface mining going on there. There will be
underground mining on both sides of Hazel Dell Parkway. Max Williams stated they
have a current application with the DNR. John South requested a drawing of the
locations to accompany the written description along with a time table and schedule of
operations. Tom Engle said there were discussions with adjacent property owners. The
overall plan starts from the east and goes to the west. Mr. South stated there are flood
plain issues. The flood plains need to be identified in larger scale on the survey.
Wetland and archeological issues on the property need to be investigated. Max Williams
spoke further on their wetland topics. Mr. South stated a 401 permit would be required if
the creek was being relocated. Tom Engle distributed a large survey to Laurence Lillig
and John South. An erosion control plan is needed. Mr. South inquired whether the
underground mining below the lake will this affect the water level. Bob Furlong does not
expect any change. A large change would affect stability of the banks.
Steve Broermann asked how close the lake would be to 106 Street. Mr. Engle responded
there would be 100 feet from right of way line to 106 Street. Within the 100 feet will be
the easement or ownership for the walkway. The County Engineer asked about River
Road south of 106 Street. Vacation is not a high priority; perhaps in 20 years this will
be done. There is one old house on the property owned by Mueller family. That house is
currently rented; it will be razed. Bob Furlong stated the right of way to 106 Street
would not be dedicated at the present time. Tom Engle will provide a larger set of
drawings.
Gary Hoyt has no concerns at this time.
Laurence Lillig inquired about any correspondence from DNR regarding this property.
Max Williams has not sent in applications but met with Kent Hanower about the creek
relocation. The petitioner plans to work first with the County Surveyors and then with
DNR. There is a floodway along the creek. But, there is no floodway fringe north of
106 Street. There is floodway south of 106 Street. Mr. Lillig stated DRN approvals
must be obtained before the Department can assign a docket number to their special use
request. The letter from Bill Wendling, attorney for Kingswood Homeowners
Association, was discussed. The neighbors are asking for certain points in conjunction
with this application. Mr. Lillig will review the letter.
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John South asked about well -head protection. Mr. Lillig has not received anything from
the Utility Department. He suggested the petitioner contact John Duffy.
Scott Brewer asked about 43. Reclamation listed under Commitments. He requested a
copy of the conceptual landscape plans. The petitioners responded there was no "real"
landscape plan at this time. It would be done later.
Steve Broermann established there would not be another entrance on 106 Street. He
inquired about any liability for possible collapse of 106 Street due to mining under the
road. Bob Furlong stated his company would be liable. However, he believes it will not
occur. They are mining under Gray Road. Mr. Furlong hopes it is never an issue.
Jeff Kendall asks about the property on the southwest corner of 106 and Hazel Dell
Road. Refrigerators and appliances are stored there. Mining operations at the site will be
all surface. The petitioners have spoken to the Muellers about the problem. Once they
determine where the creek will be, the area will be fenced to stop dumping. Martin
Marietta will take control of the property in the future and the problem will be gone.
They are dealing with the County and DNR. Both homes will be razed. Bob Furlong
promised to take care of the problem before they go the BZA.
West Carmel Center, Block A Ritter's Frozen Custard (207 -00 DP Amend /ADLS
Amend)
The site is located at 10575 North Michigan Road. The site is zoned B -3 /business within
the U.S. 421 Overlay Zone. Filed by Kevin D. McKasson of Glendale Partners.
Kerry Buckley, American Consulting Engineers, described the Michigan Road Ritter's
project. This is the last undeveloped lot and is located south of Wendy's. Ms. Buckley
introduced Sam Barrick, Ritter's Frozen Custard, Craig Willians, Olympia Partners, Inc.,
and Blaine Paul, American Consulting Engineers. Questions on the project were solicited
from the TAC committee.
Dick Hill, Jeff Kendall, and John Lester had no comments.
Scott Brewer received the plans; they meet the Ordinance. He suggested changing the
crab apple type to Prairiefire or Beverly.
Steve Cash said this project is similar to other projects. An outlet permit is needed.
There will not be any entrance drive from County roads.
Steve Broermann had no issues.
John South stated the erosion control plan is fine. Regarding the adjacent properties, the
swale and detention basin that parallel U.S. 421 needs to be stabilized and seeded. It is in
a bad condition. Mr. South knows that is not part of this project, but they are all tied
together. This is an Olympia Partners concern.
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Gary Hoyt understands the building will not be sprinkled. He would like the petitioner to
install a Knox box.
Rick McClain stated this parcel is within IPL territory.
Laurence Lillig commented that when this project came in for predesign, Staff suggested
the developer consider shifting down to the northwest corner to tie in with the green belt
and landscaping. The Department still believes this is a good idea. However, they are
welcome to disregard it. The overall landscape plan has not been received. John Lester
asked if there is a path along U.S. 421. The State of Indiana will install a path. This
should be added to the plans. John Lester needs a copy.
Scott Brewer asked if there were any sidewalks on the access roads. Mr. Lillig responded
that there is a walk that extends back on the north side of the Wendy's site. He asked if
the petitioner would consider installing a walkway on the access road. Detail on the
dumpster needs to be provided. A meeting is scheduled with Olympia to discuss and
look at elevations on Thursday of this week. Mr. Brewer stated the landscaping for
overall site has been installed but not according to the approved plan. There are
deficiencies with Walgreens and possibly Wendy's. The petitioner must correct what is
lacking before the final inspection.
Laurence Lillig will meet with the petitioners tomorrow to discuss actual design, tree
species, dumpster detail, sidewalk issue, and 421 detail. The landscape plan will be
covered by Scott Brewer.
Ritter's Frozen Custard North Range Line Road (205 -00 Z)
The site is located north west of 8th Street Northwest. Filed by Herman A. Judith R.
Sierzputowski.
Bruce Sklare, Bay Development, introduced Ritter's proposed location on the west side
of Range Line Road approximately 1,000 feet north of 136 Street. A site plan was
included in the packets. One half acre of the northwest corner of the site is part of the
U.S. 31 Overlay district. The site is zoned B2 and faces Range Line Road. A cemetery
separates the parcel from U.S. 31. An area in the middle of this site shows up on the
federal wetland maps. Mr. Sklare cited a letter dated October 11, 1991 from the Army
Corps of Engineers that stated no jurisdictional wetlands of waters of the United States
will be impacted by this proposed project. He learned this week that an investigation is
being done to confirm this nine -year old letter.
Dick Hill distributed information on Engineering Department procedures. Greg
Rasmussen, Weihe Engineers, was introduced. There may be additional comments on
drainage issues. The fees have been calculated; Engineering will discuss the figures. The
accel/decel lanes are existing. Tract 2 is in the floodway area. There will be no
development in that area. There is a future use in back of the north parcel. The site goes
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to the west end. It is a flat area. Depending on retention requirements, an office building
may be constructed on the site. The sanitary sewer is on the north property line. Mr.
Sklare said there is a possible connection to the Monon Trail. Arrangements would need
to be made with the cemetery. Mr. Hill asked for a commitment for a sidewalk.
Laurence Lillig believes the thoroughfare plan calls for an eight or ten -foot path. A date
for installation was not required at this time. Mr. Hill just wants a commitment.
Laurence Lillig said Range Line Road is designated as a secondary arterial with a 90 -foot
right or way or a 45 -foot half. This should be acquired now. A ten -foot asphalt path is
required for a secondary arterial. Commitments can be accepted at this time.
Dick Hill stated the engineer has not reviewed the drainage calcs. She will work in
conjunction with Hamilton County Surveyor's Office.
Steve Cash said the Fulton Marrow is on the other side of Range Line Road and is not a
county regulated drain. A permit is not required.
Dick Hill wants the detention pond to be lined. This will soon be a requirement with
Clay. The Utility Department can provide the specifications.
Greg Rasmussen stated Bruce Sklare has talked to Kate Weese to revise calcs.
Jeff Kendall has no issues. However, an improvement permit requires the pre submittal
process.
Dick Hill stated Plan Commission and /or Board of Zoning Appeals approval is required
before the matter can be placed on the public works agenda.
John Lester has spoken with the petitioner about a path on Range Line Road. The Parks
Department will be happy to speak with Ritter's about connection to the Monon Trail.
Vehicle driving must be prohibited on the path. The Parks Department has had no
discussion regarding Tract 2. If in the wetlands area, Mr. Sklare should contact Terry
Jones about flood way issues.
Scott Brewer will probably ask for additional landscape requirements. Mr. Sklare
responded that the site has existing trees. Under the U.S. 31 Overlay requirement, the
property would be required to have 39 trees and 112 shrubs. There are 13 trees now.
Buffers requirements also exist. Mr. Brewer needs a detailed tree preservation plan and
limits of construction lines on the map. He will meet with Bruce Sklare.
Steve Cash does not need a permit on this annexed parcel. A study is being done now on
flooding problems on Cool Creek. His office received notices from DNR on some issues.
Bruce Sklare stated in the past dirt material was put into Cool Creek without permission.
When that was identified, the State went through a mitigation/mediation procedure. The
fill was removed from Cool Creek and Tract 1, which is in the northern part, was filled.
The State has approved this action. Steve Cash requested a copy of the final judgment.
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John South wants the 100 -year flood elevation added to these plans. The State wants
anything 811 or above on the plans.
Gary Hoyt needs a Knox box.
Rick McClain stated if there will be development on the west end, they will need some
utility easement for that lot. He would like this now. The start date is early spring.
Ursell Cox, Bay Development Corp., asked which pole would supply power. He would
prefer it come off the pole to the south.
Laurence Lillig does not remember the inclusion of an office building on the west end of
the site during preliminary discussions. Bruce Sklare was told if they had any thoughts
on how it might be used to indicate that on the plan. Mr. Lillig suggested a commitment
as part of rezone process that any office use developed on the site would be subject to the
31 Overlay requirements for DP /ADLS. As part of the rezone, the Plan Commission will
want a series of commitments. The Department has no preliminary set of commitments.
Laurence Lillig wants a copy. In exchange for excusing the property from the 31 Overlay
requirements, the Plan Commission will want to know the advantage to the City for doing
so. Landscape and sidewalks plans must be determined. The plans must be labeled
Range Line Road. Mr. Lillig wants a color copy of the elevations for this file. The half
right of way for Range Line Road is 45 feet. The sign appears too close to the right of
way. A detail of the sign was not included. Mr. Lillig has spoken with Gordon Byers
about the rezone plans. Terry Jones agreed that a text amendment is not appropriate.
Dick Hill said, regarding 9 13 Sanitary Sewer, the easement is not seen. It has St
Vincent's interceptor.
Kingsborough, Section 4 (Secondary Plat) 208 -00 SP
The site is located northeast of West 141 Street and Ditch Road. The site is zoned S-
1 /residence. Filed by Curtis C. Huff of Stoeppelwerth Associates for Zaring National.
Bill Bryant, Stoeppelwerth, stated this is the last section of the development. Some
comments have been received. Zaring plans to start construction in early spring.
Jeff Kendall believes this section has 19 lots. It is a small part of the subdivision.
John Lester did not get a set of plans. No path is shown along Ditch Road. This needs to
be an eight -foot asphalt path. It must match the width of Brookstone Subdivision's path.
Scott Brewer has some issues with planting street trees. They are indicated on the
primary plat and should be on the secondary also. Zaring has planted in the right of way.
This is not allowed. The original plan shows them in the utility easement. Red maples
are recommended. White pines and red maples are shown. The landscape plan has been
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prepared by the Zaring Cincinnati office. The original plan was drawn in 1994. That
plan shows groupings around the Ditch Road entrance which are more extensive than
what is shown on the secondary plat.
Steve Cash's comments will be the same as previous sections. The petitioner said
everything has been filed with the Surveyor's office. A letter of credit or bond has not
been received. Mr. Cash is concerned with the swale along the north end; he thought that
would be piped. His concern is no so much the amount of flow. He wants to be certain
the swale is adequate for the constant flow. His Department is seeing a lot more of these
types of swale with constant flow due to irrigation systems. They are wet all of the time.
This type of problem should be avoided. It needs to have a subsurface drain. The off site
flow cannot be controlled. Kent Ward may require that be intercepted with a pipe at the
road.
Steve Broermann stated the big issue is the right of way for the decel lane. The project
cannot start until that issue is solved. The Highway Department should be informed.
The road must be saw cut if there is any widening.
Bill Bryant asked for right of way form. Steve Broermann will mail it to him.
John South stated there is an existing 10 -inch tile under the property. There needs to be a
tile to pick up the flow. He recommends raising the swale somewhat as it drops in
places. It needs to be kept higher and dryer.
Gary Hoyt had no comments.
Rick McClain needs to relocate the poles. The petitioner must pay for this and request
service.
Laurence Lillig stated the addresses shown seem to be out of range. The petitioner must
check these with Bill Akers, Communications operations supervisor. The source of title
is missing. The administrative version should be used for the commission certificate.
The Ditch Road right of way needs a non access easement. No development plans have
been shown for common area 4, but there is an address and building line. There are no
plans for it at this time. The non access abbreviation shows on the plat but not on the
legend. Monuments and markers are missing. The scale of 1 to 50 feet required. The
key map should be on sheet one. The property owner and developer certificate dates
need to be changed from 1998 to 2001. There is no detailed subdivision signage for
common areas 4 and 5. If signage was not approved previously as part of the primary
plat, the petitioner must come back to Plan Commission for ADLS approval. Common
area 5 has a drainage and utility easement that does not carry across. The location of that
easement with the signage /landscape easement could cause the petitioner to go to the
Surveyor's office to locate the sign within that drainage /utility easement.
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Two -Story Medical Office Building (DP /ADLS)
The site is located southeast of West Smokey Row Road and Oak Ridge Road. The site
is zoned B -5 /business within the U.S. 31 Overlay Zone.
Filed by Adam DeHart of Keeler -Webb Associates for F.C.C. Development.
The case was tabled by request of the petitioner.
Village of WestClay, Section 8501 (Secondary Plat)
The site is located southeast of West 131 Street and Towne Road. The site is zoned
PUD /planned unit development.
Filed by Keith Lash of The Schneider Corporation for Brenwick TND Communities.
Keith Lash, Schneider Engineering, introduced Parks Pifer, Brenwick Corporation. This
parcel is west of the village center near Towne Road. There are 14 lots and 5.75 acres. A
good deal of the infrastructure is in place from last summer's Home Show. Now
Brenwick wishes to plat those 14 lots. Treaty Line needs to be extended north, an alley is
required to service some of the lots, the sanitary sewer and water main extension.
Regarding the entrance and right of way for Towne Road, the Glebe Street plans have
stopped short in anticipation of the reconstruction of Towne Road. Mr. Lash invited
questions from TAC members.
Jeff Kendall had no comment.
John Lester understands the path on Towne Road is not shown because the road will be
rebuilt. Mr. Lash stated that is correct, the path will be added later. Brenwick will install
it.
Scott Brewer said most of the landscaping is in place. Parks Pifer stated everything in the
center islands is complete. The street tree planting will be done after the homes are
framed. Scott Brewer requested a set of plans. Mr. Pifer will send a set to him.
Steve Cash had one comment about the construction plans. He asked how the SSD
would handle this. The plans show SSD going out, taking the under drain out. There is
kind of a road side ditch. They have put the SSDs out to help collect water. Steve Cash
asked how it would be handled when it is cut off. When Towne Road is built, there will
be under drains under the curbs. Steve Broermann said it was important to ensure there is
room for the right of way along Towne Road. Keith Lash will provide an exhibit
showing where platting will be. He believes it will be 20 feet from the right of way. The
private drive will be out of the right of way. All of the infrastructures are in.
John South and Gary Hoyt had no comment.
Rick McClain asked is the easements are 10 feet wide. They are less than that in some
areas. Most electrical is along the alleys.
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Laurence Lillig commented on monuments and markers. The 20 -foot curb radius at
corners is missing. He asked when the Towne Road right of way will be platted. Keith
Lash said it might be deeded as metes and bounds. The improvements will be done when
the right of way is dedicated.
Laurence Lillig said the Towne Road right of way called for in the Thoroughfare plan is
140 feet with a 70 -foot half. Plans show an 88.56 foot dimension out from the section
line. Typically old roads have their center lines on the section lines. There are a series of
high tension poles to be in the medians. The right of way will be 140.
Mr. Lillig said the planting area must be numbered. Otherwise, they will show up as
parcels. The homeowners are responsible for maintenance. The address list is not shown
on the draft. Keith Lash has not seen it. Laurence Lillig suggested not putting addresses
on plat. Keith Lash responded the addresses are good for the utility companies. The
street names are not on the plat. He requested a note on sheet one indicating primary plat
docket number (18 -98 PP) and the secondary plat number (203 -00 SP) should be
included. The date on sheet 2 should be 2001. Mr. Engelking indicated the next
WestClay plat to be approved will be Provost Park.
The following case was added to the agenda.
First Indiana Bank 196 -00 ADLS
David Huffman, CSO Engineers, stated this project was heard at Plan Commission last
night and was sent to special studies committee. They need to be heard at TAC. They
want to tear down the old bank and construct a new building.
Mr. Huffman has received some letters. The building will not be sprinkled. It will be
located at Merchants Square Drive and AAA Way. The address is 2168 E 116 Street.
Bill Akers wants to address the bank with AAA Way number. The bank is using a self
assigned address off Merchants Square Drive. The application was filed with the 116
street address.
Mr. Huffman said this will be the fourth or fifth bank with the new prototype. The
location is being shifted to improve traffic flow. The redevelopment commission will
realign road after the building is razed.
John Lester and Steve Cash had no comment.
The meeting adjourned at 4:05 p.m.
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