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1
Sign Ordinance Comment Summary
Carmel Chamber Sign Ordinance Task Force
20 August 2008
Of At some point, can page numbers be added to the table of contents
items on the first page of the document? \t's
2. 25.07.01-02. Purpose and Intent.
a./A. Compatible with the objectives of proper design (add "as
1/ stated in this ordinance") and zoning amenitites;
b. Previous C is missing. "to conduct business" was deleted from
the opening. We see signs as essential to conduct business and
would prefer that language remain. We would also prefer the
initial sentence C- "Establish in such a way as to allow and
promote optimum conditions for meeting the sign user's needs.
. ." that was deleted in the most recent draft be reinstated. It
goes to businesses' need for optimum signage.
3. 25.07.01.03 - Administration and Enforcement
a. D. Say what? C N i' 4 viLl f 1,p c t c- i 9 h v. -uut c„0 ry,4 0 rl.
,I2eF. Add the word ""material prior to "misstatement of fact." -t{c ±-0
I uy H. "until the sign is altered" Altered how? Words changed? '-/0 Jr az
` 4. 25.07.01-04 Sign Maintenance. ryi (4
,/,` . ,fic , a. C. We need definitions of what constitutes "change"? Is a 1 f--�'KS f
C/ - change in layout a change in wording? Our opinion is those
should not require a permit.
9 0 --c., b. E. re: "changeable copy" On some signs the layout or wording
1-- -- is changed by changing the panel, not letters or words.
vi ®Icl 5. 25.07.01-03 Prohibited Signs.
6_ C 11 GWl Q(7l- a. -C' Delete current verbiage and put "Off-premise signs." f 1 Vt_t t.Cu t i+ i S•
b✓O. Identify where such signs are permitted; i,e. what section of al.e ordinance will identify that. 1 E c
�/r/l� 1 r/C Define "flashing, blinking and animated."- ctc f Qd r'/L Z-t •
,/tk k/ -? 11,./Ca way as to function solely as a sign. . ."
VT-64,M 2. Change to "Delivery vehicles in designated loading areas. ,c(;-rip
G `,�� •-f—E3�r4. Combine. Change to "Vehicles parked in areas of + 1- r1'
vdevelopment that have been screened from or are not generally
`( v r �(/U. visible from the public right-of-way or where parking is not
.Utr P g
Ea_(L- a J 11,14, available 150 feet. . ." (C3--+ YU ( i 5
(� gi L5. Simplify. Delete "painted on or permanently affixed on the
-7t(i Vi - doors or integral body parts" O k-
1
r
a
y 25.07.05 Legal Non-Conforming Signs. Assuming this is worth the
associated administrative time and costs, the process defined needs to
be followed. In the past several years, companies with signs that have
existed for many years without notification of being legal non-
conforming signs have received surprise demands that they remove
heir signs.
7 25.07.02-01 Subdivision and Multi-Family Housing Complex.
a. G. Illumination: change to Permitted. What is "minimal spill
off?"
y2572-03 Institutional and Recreational Uses.
. This is the first of many items that include "existing right-of-
way or proposed right-of-way per the Thoroughfare Plan,
whichever is greater. " Given the sometimes huge difference
between those two, (e.g. 116th Street; Shelbourne Road) we
recommend that the existing right-of-way be utilized in all
references.
_b-"Changeable" copy comment again.
25.07.02-04 Single Tenant Building
_a B: Change "Street Frontage" to "Facade" per your definition of I ,,,�
facade. VU W o`4 i vui fit 0-vt i t-�•:Qk,F {-Tv k t c7 4-1
pWE.. Same comment on right-of-way vs. thoroughfare plan as
revious. Otherwise signs may be too far away to be functional
which will necessitate more bureaucratic activity on the part of
the business owner to get approval.
10.25.07.02-05 Multi-Tenant Buildings (see insert A)
a .1. (a) "One ground identification sign per façade and one awl,t, ci
v wall or roof sign per faad'e. Why can't the market control 1'0 )'
rather than specify "where all tenants equally share sign area"? 47',of V1 (),
J2/13.1.(b) Same as above. Y04 2tM Ct(i
cv4.2. Same comment ✓1D1i1'►03.3. (a) Per complex: One Complex identification sign per
each entrance to the complex. . ." I 0 0k- tiC't- I 0 C cb{i&fl- 114-6A IS vtikEM
i. b "Multi-Tenant Building Complex Directory: One per i t I. r`°
.a-ade."-5 .P �Y'o ir1-f"0- -- VL14 vuted
ii. • - : . . - . . • . • - I •r.a equaTfc the
tea." y ?Lb J 2 E VfA-40A_-1
e. B.4. Multi-Level Mixed-Use Buildings-La • ence
7111(1
't 5 ev between multi-level mixed use buildin�on d on Main
' �/1l c A Street The Arts-81 Design requirements apply on Main Street, h-1-}--
V�1 �,�. •• but that may not be clear to users of the document. eI/f t� P
0-4 i. a ". . .sign per Facade; . "i ��i L-` I.
ti�1 01. What about corners? -t"-tto IC c,0--u
-4i i-. (c) Change "OR" to "AND." IN`t 11C Ea a06--
YD.1. Directory: Six feet. Same as all the other sections. S 6 Lj OA)
O,�tA • vCv
0,v. (A $161 v)
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E.2. Right-of-way vs. thoroughfare again.
.E.3. Ground: This was changed to minimum 10 feet from
minimum five. Five is our preference.
-i— `Another reference to changeable copy. ✓•tact ✓ui tom '
.117.02-06 Window Signs
a. Can we just call them window signs and eliminate the
distinction? If not, can we at least make maximum sign area in
non-illuminated and illuminated identical. i -11t 41-41 at)
12. 25.07.02-08 Old Town 69'/1-t_ (ivy—idW
B.1.a Why share if tenants lease a larger space? Our opinion is Of./W„./.. `f v
that's a landlord decision. kit - 5-
--137-B71-7b Change to "per Facade." i IAD
s._-B=2.b Change to "per Façade." 4--L
c(B.3 The old issue here is the allowance of some types of signage
in a particular location that are not allowed elsewhere. i + i; c' WeC i '41
yeSD. Change height to six feet to remain consistent throughout. cti'c f 1 t •
f 1E.4. What if it's not possible to locate the suspended sign
v further away? Again, the issue of right-of-way vs. thoroughfare.
157 E.6. Our opinion is that on-street signs are in keeping with the
character of Old Town and should be allowed. For that matter,
so long as they do not impinge on pedestrian flow, w 're for
allowing them in all retail locations. V' I l ( 1.2-( c- t tf.vtit,-e
1 . 25.1 .02-09 Old Meridian District
C. No awning? Don't awning signs currently exist? (e.;. .
Meridian Music?) �l L� L� O V- G�l,W(,-1, -t C - L-6�"y 0I did j�
C.1.d Wall signs 30 sq. as in Old Town instead of 16. I,t' l..E: tf k2---
. C.1.e Developed sites typically need ground signs. Why can't
they be permitted? Why was square footage reduced from 32 to
30? Why wouldn't this be according to frontage?
14./15.07.02-10 Carmel Drive-Range Line Road Overlay Zone
\/ a. A. Why are ground signs not permitted so long as they are not
in the right-of-way? 19/0 v K vueV l,l- a-0 b(dam 'Ft lie 191- '(dig
15. 25.07.0,3-Temporary Signs - see insert A 16-0
1+ 15 h a.0. Should this be in the Administration and Enforcement /
L section so it applies to all signs, not just temporary ones? Wwy
b. D. Can we specify type of lighting allowable (e.g. covered ctAkva9,
+ 1` -44 spotlight on banner). If you want to prohibit interior 01-11,4A
fe-e/41: 261;°Cel illumination, say that.
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Sign Ordinance Comment Summary
Carmel Chamber Sign Ordinance Task Force
20 August 2008
At some point,can page numbers be added to the table of contents items on the first page of the
document? Yes. Will be done for Thursday.
. 25.07,01-02. Purpose and Intent.
fit. A. Compatible with the objective of proper design (add"as stated in this ordinance") and
oning amenities; Can probably do that. YES.
Previous C is missing. "to conduct business" was deleted from the opening. We see signs
as essential to conduct business and would prefer the language remain. We would also
prefer the initial sentence C—"Establish in such a way as to allow and promote optimum
conditions for meeting the sign user's needs..." that was deleted in the most recent draft
be reinstated. It goes to businesses' need for optimum signage. We can add it back. Will
be done for Thursday. y•( •
/2571.03—Administration and Enforcement
D. Say what? It pretty much says that you can't put up a sign or tell someone else to do it
without a permit first.it's just the legal way of saying that. I'm not sure we can change
ithat. 1'1 t'\I (M I 7
F. Add the word "material" prior to "misstatement of fact." Brr ato- it .
H. "until the sign is altered" Altered how?Words changed? We will create a definition .
for Sign Alteration that makes it clear what we mean. � a, vt-' ti`c`f •
4 25.07.0 04 Sign Maintenance. � � YYi. e sr
" a. C. We need definitions of what constitutes "change"? Is a change in layout a char e in t i� .
"change"? g Y g �_ J
wording? Our opinion is those should not require a permit. We will create a definition for
Sign Alteration that makes it clear what we mean. vi ; 2e'l ct✓ff-erot.'h
V E. re: "changeable copy" On some signs the layout or wording is changed by changing
the panel, not letters or words. The definition of Changeable copy says "Characters,
letters or illustrations that can be changed or rearranged non-electrically or non-
electronically without altering the face or surface of the sign." Changing an entire panel
or face would mean a new tenant is going in or someone has re-designed their sign. That
would require a new permit. Changeable copy refers only to the letters that are changed
on already made faces for such messages.
,./ 25.07.01-03 Prohibited Signs.
ty C. Delete current verbiage and put"Off-premise signs." We can add at the end "i.e. off-
premise signs."
J>! D. Identify where such signs are permitted; i.e. what section of the ordinance will identify
that. They are not allowed anywhere, so we deleted that portion from this section.
/E. Define "flashing, blinking and animated." We will add more description of what we
/ lean.
L. a way as to function solely as a sign..." . I)0 VII
L.2. Change to "Delivery vehicles in designated loading areas. It's basically the same
thing. We will leave it as is.
f,/L.3 &4. Combine. Change to "Vehicles parked in areas of development that have been
screened from or are not generally visible from the public right-of-way or where parking
is not available 150 feet..."We will leave it as is.
j/L.5. Simplify. Delete "painted on or permanently affixed on the doors or integral body
parts"We can do this.
t. J.
Jvu17
25.07.05 Legal Non-Conforming Signs. Assuming this is worth the associated administrative
time and costs, the process defined needs to be followed. In the past several years,companies
with signs that have existed for many years without notification of being legal non-conforming
signs have received surprise demands that they remove their signs. We understand completely.
We are still looking into if this is worth having in the Sign Ordinance. If not, we will remove this
section. If it is we will finish compiling the list and update the dates in the Or finance.
7 25.07.02-01 Subdivision and multi-Family Housing Complex. Y ' i -4-1 (4'fl7t f
. G. Illumination: change to permitted. What is "minimal spill off?" We will change for
consistency. Minimal spill off referred to not a lot of light pollution going into the sky
from ground lighting.
—4 8. 25.07.02-03 Institutional and Recreational Uses.
kUjv / a. E. this is the first of many items that include "existing right of way or proposed right of
V way pre the thoroughfare plan, whichever is greater." Given the sometimes huge
PAJL/ difference between those two, (e.g. 116`h Street; Shelboume Road) we recommend that
the existing right-of-way be utilized in all references. We will change to be consistent
throughout the Sign Ordinance. It will follow your suggestion for existing ROW or owner
has to commit to relocating the sign.
b. "Changeable"copy comment again. Refer to#4.b. reply.
9. 25.07.02-04 Single Tenant Building
✓ a. B. Change "Street Frontage" to "Façade" per your definition of façade. We also have a
definition for Street Frontage: the linear length of the primary façade of the building or
segment thereof facing a public street on which a sign may be established. The definition
for Façade allows for signs to not have to face a public street. We understand that is your
desire, to let businesses have signs that can face the parking lot and non-public streets for
more identification. But we are not willing to make that change.
b. E. Same comment on right of way vs. thoroughfare plan as previous. Otherwise signs
may be too far away to be functional which will necessitate more bureaucratic activity on
the part of the business owner to get approval. Refer to#8.a. reply.
1,D'25.07.02-05 Multi-Tenant Buildings (see insert A)
V a./B.I. (a)"One ground identification sign per facade and one wall or roof sign per facade.
✓ Why cant' the market control rather than specify"where all tenants equally share sign
area"? We have changed this to not restrict that all tenants must be equally represented.
But we have added that the name of the building or center is most prominent and takes up
l\3 of the total sign area. We felt this was a decent compromise. There will also be a
drawing that illustrates what "most prominent" means. We will not change to facade. It
must still face a public street.
j7 B.1. (b) Same as above. We have added projecting sign to this section for you with the
V stipulation that it's only allowed in Carmel Dr./Rangeline Rd. Overlay, Old Meridian
District and Old Town Overlay zones. We also added for those zones that each tenant
may also have a Secondary Projecting sign (which will have a new definition) for
pedestrians walking along to see what the name of the store is (if someone couldn't tell
from window signs or displays). You will notice in the location section that this sign only
has to be on a Façade, not a public street. The "OR" for a) and b) will remain because
multi-tenant ground floor buildings that have two street frontages will be able to utilize
both types of signs (meaning ground and wall/projecting/roof). Those that do not will
most likely continue to only have wall (or projecting/roof) signs, as they currently do.
B.2. Same comment We have clarified for this section that it is a Multi-Tenant, Multi-
Level Non-Retail & Service Building. This is in reference to our use table. This
i .i
urban feel. Paintings on the side of buildings would be out of character for residential
appearing structures.
D. Change height to six feet to remain consistent throughout. We can do this.
AE.4. What if it's not possible to locate the suspended sign further away? Again, the issue
. A na\- f right of w vs. thoroughfare. See#8.a. reply.
is that on-street signs are in keeping with the character of Old Town and
I"" should be allowed. For that matter, so long as they do not impinge on pedestrian flow,
E we're for allowing them in all retail locations. Portable signs will be allowed on Main St.
Y� There will be a calculation to determine how much is allowed.
13. 25.07.02-09 Old Meridian District
a. C. No awning7"t7tts signs currently exist? (E.g. Meridian Music?) They are
allowed—considered wall signs. We might add this to the allowable signs section in the
beginning. A( ad
C.1.d. Wall signs 30 sq. as in Old Town instead of 16. We might be able to do this. 1/
c. C.l.e. Developed sites typically need ground signs. Why can't they be permitted?Why as
square footage reduced from 32 to 30?Why wouldn't this be according to frontage? We
would prefer to see a wall sign or a suspended sign to announce the name of the multi-
family housing subdivision.
V (1.25.07. 2-10 Carmel Drive-Range Line Rd.Overlay Zone
. A. Why are ground signs not permitted so long as they are not in the right-of-way?
Because we are striving to bring all buildings up to the street. Ground signs are not
necessary when projecting signs and wall signs will take care of a tenant's needs. A
perfect example is KFC. Why should they have a ground sign and the projecting sign? It
is redundant and unnecessary.
. 25.07.0 emporary Signs—see insert A
C. Should this be in the Administration and Enforcement section so it applies to all signs,
not just temporary ones? It is also in the permanent sign beginning section. So it is
covered.
b. .'D. Can we specify type of lighting allowable (e.g. covered spotlight on banner)? If you
,,� want to prohibit interior illumination, say that. We don't need to. Banners cannot be
illuminated internally; otherwise they would not be a banner. If the business want indirect
lighting through parking lot lights or building lights, that is fine. I don't think we need to
call that out specifically though. Or, if they want to install a temporary light to shine up at
the banner,that is fine too.
reference, along with the definition of a Multi-Tenant, Multi-Level Mixed Use Building
S ould help to clear confusion.
s
.3. (a) Per complex: One Complex identification sign per each entrance to the
complex..."This would potentially allow more than one sign per street frontage. Say
there are two entrances on one street, instead of having one at each entrance, we would
rather there be one in-between those entrances. It accomplishes the same purpose. Plus,
remember that these signs are in addition to the wall signs the tenants are allowed per
stree frontage.
b "Multi-Tenant Building Complex Directory: One per Facade." There is no need
for complex directory signs in front of every side of every building within the
complex. The purpose of this sign is to direct people once they are in the
complex. One sign per street frontage should do the trick just fine.
b (ii) "sign must have a landscaped area equal to the sign area."This has been
removed because it is in the beginning of the permanent sign section.
e 4. Multi-Level Mixed—Use Buildings— Large difference between multi-levels mixed
yuse buildings on US 31 and on Main Street. The Arts & Design requirements apply on
Min Street, but that may not be clear to users of the document. The new definition of
Multi-Tenant, Multi-Level Mixed Use should clear up any questions about if a building
qualifies or not: "A building with two or more floors where the ground floor is generally
reserved for Retail & Service uses and the upper stories are generally intended for
residential uses".
V "...sign per Facade..." See #9.a. reply.
L What about corners? We have a new "note" that says: A blade sign installed on
the corner will be considered facing two Street Frontages. This way we will be
able to keep a consistent, clean look on the building facades.
iv. (c)change "OR"to "AND." We believe either one wall sign or one ground sign
will be enough to let people know what businesses are in the upper stories. Also,
if they choose the wall signs, they can have one at each entrance because it's per
facade. Someone would only choose the ground sign if they did not need all the
wall signs. Also there would most likely be a door on the front to let people in—
they can always have window signs to take care of their needs too.
l D.1. Directory: Six feet. Same as all other sections. We can do this.
g. E.2. Right of way vs. thoroughfare again. See #8.a. reply.
h. E.3. Ground: This was changed to minimum 10 feet from minimum five. Five is our
preference. We might be able to change to five feet.
/L G. Another reference to changeable copy. See #4.b. reply.
25.07.02-06 Window signs
k. a. Can we just call them window signs and eliminate the distinction? No. If not,can we at
least make maximum sign area in non-illuminated and illuminated identical? No. Unless,
of course, you want non-illuminated to go down to 4 sq. ft. instead of 30% of the window
;u-c,, Then we would definitely do that. But I don't think that would fly with anyone... O
�'D 12. 25.07.02-08 Old Tow%
4, B.1.a Wh46hare if tenants lease a larger space? Our opinion is that's a landlord decision.
-----Wr*
✓ 1 don't know if this is good in Old Town. The suspended signs only are allowed 12 sq. ft.,
so it would be silly to apply the 30% of the building name rule...
�t ` Vi 0.1.b Change to"per Facade." See#9.a. reply.
�1�. ¢/B.2.b Change to"per Facade." See#9.a. reply.
Okit .3 The old issue here is the allowance of some types of signage in a particular location
that are not allowed elsewhere. I think these specifications are to give Main Street a more
12.es t2° ri sees f-a r 3 - -0`;'1 w-1-9 .
.
Sign Ordinance Comment Summary
Carmel Chamber Sign Ordinance Task Force
20 August 2008
At some point, can page numbers be added to the table of contents items on the first page of the
document? Done.
2. 25.071-02. Purpose and Intent.
A. Compatible with the objective of proper design (add "as stated in this ordinance") and
ning amenities; Done.
b Previous C is missing. "to conduct business" was deleted from the opening. We see signs
as essential to conduct business and would prefer the language remain. We would also
prefer the initial sentence C—"Establish in such a way as to allow and promote optimum
conditions for meeting the sign user's needs..."that was deleted in the most recent draft
be reinstated. It goes to businesses' need for optimum signage. Done.
3. 25.07,01.03—Administration and Enforcement
01/ D. Say what? It pretty much says that you can't put up a sign or tell someone else to do it
without a permit first. We think we should leave it the way it is currently stated.
d th rd"material"prior to"misstatement off "
c. H. "until the sign is altered" Altered how? Words need to work on the
definition of alteration and change.
4. 25.07.01-04 Sign Maintenance.
a. C. We need definitions of what constitutes "change"? Is a change in layout a change in
wording? Our opinion is those should not require a permit. We need to work on the
definition of alteration and change.
,b,/E. re: "changeable copy" On some signs the layout or wording is changed by changing
V the panel, not letters or words. The definition of Changeable copy says"Characters,
letters or illustrations that can be changed or rearranged non-electrically or non-
electronically without altering the face or surface of the sign."Changing an entire panel
or face would mean a new tenant is going in or someone has re-designed their sign. That
would require a new permit. Changeable copy refers only to the letters that are changed
on already made faces for such messages.The new Ordinance online will have links to
definitions so people will not be confused.
5. 25.07.01-03 Prohibited Signs.
a. C. Delete current verbiage and put "Off-premise signs."We would like to keep the
le verbiage as is. If we just put"off-premise signs" then we may have to add another
definition to the definitions section. Also, the current verbiage addresses more than just
off premise signs. It also references vacant buildings with signs still installed on the
property.
V D. Identify where such signs are permitted; i.e. what section of the ordinance will identify
' that. The are not allowed anywhere, so w leted that onion from this section.
c do more work on thij
t L. a way as to function solely as a sign..."We think it should remain as is.
se L.2. Change to"Delivery vehicles in designated loading areas. We believe it is fine as is.
.3 &4. Combine. Change to"Vehicles parked in areas of development that have been
screened from or are not generally visible from the public right-of-way or where parking
is not available 150 feet..." We would like to keep it is as.
ig. L.5. Simplify. Delete "painted on or permanently affixed on the doors or integral body
V parts" Done.
25.07.05 Legal Non-Conforming Signs. Assuming this is worth the associated administrative
time and costs,the process defined needs to be followed. In the past several years, companies
with signs that have existed for many years without notification of being legal non-conforming
signs have received surprise demands that they remove their signs. We understand completely.
We are still looking into if this is worth having in the Sign Ordinance. If not, we will remove this
section. If it is, we will finish compiling the list and update the dates in the 9rdiinance.
Vi
5.07.02-01 £&'5.07.02-01 Subdivision and multi-Family Housing Complex. 1 444"1 Cat.(
G. Illumination: change to permitted. What is"minimal spill off?"We will change for
consistency. Minimal spill off referred to not a lot of light pollution going into the sky
from ground lighting.
8. 25.07.02-03 Institutional and Recreational Uses.
a. E. this is the first of many items that include "existing right of way or proposed right of
way pre the thoroughfare plan, whichever is greater."Given the sometimes huge
difference between those two, (e.g. 116`h Street; Shelbourne Road) we recommend that
the existing right-of-way be utilized in all references. We will change to be consistent
throughout the Sign Ordinance. It will follow your suggestion for existing ROW, but
ner has to commit to relocating the sign should the proposed right-of-way be acquired.
"Changeable"copy comment again. Refer to#4.b. reply.
9. 25.07.02-04 Single Tenant Building
aI. Change "Street Frontage" to "Façade" per your definition of façade. We also have a
definition for Street Frontage: the linear length of the primary façade of the building or
segment thereof facing a public street on which a sign may be established.The definition
for Façade allows for signs to not have to face a public street. We understand that is your
desire to let businesses have signs that can face the parking lot and non-public streets for
more identification,but we are not willing to support that change.
b. E. Same comment on right of way vs. thoroughfare plan as previous. Otherwise signs
may be too far away to be functional which will necessitate more bureaucratic activity on
the part of the business owner to get approval. Refer to #8.a. reply.
10. 25.07.02-05 Multi-Tenant Buildings(see insert A)
a. B.1. (a) "One ground identification sign per façade and one wall or roof sign per façade.
Why cant' the market control rather than specify "where all tenants equally share sign
area"? We have changed this to not restrict that all tenants must be equally represented.
But we have added that the name of the building or center is most prominent and takes up
113 of the total sign area. We felt this was a decent compromise. There will also be a
drawing that illustrates what "most prominent" means. We will not change to façade. It
must still face a public street.
b. B.1. (b) Same as above. We have added projecting sign to this section for you with the
stipulation that it's only allowed in Carmel Dr./Rangeline Rd. Overlay, Old Meridian
District and Old Town Overlay zones. We also added for those zones that each tenant
may also have a Secondary Projecting sign (which will have a new definition) for
pedestrians walking along to see what the name of the store is (if someone couldn't tell
from window signs or displays). You will notice in the location section that this sign only
has to be on a Façade, not a public street. The "OR" for a) and b) will remain because
multi-tenant ground floor buildings that have two street frontages will be able to utilize
both types of signs(meaning ground and wall/projecting/roof). Those that do not will
most likely continue to only have wall (or projecting/roof) signs, as they currently do.
c. B.2. Same comment We have clarified for this section that it is a Multi-Tenant, Multi-
Level Non-Retail & Service Building. This is in reference to our use table.This
•
reference, along with the definition of a Multi-Tenant, Multi-Level Mixed Use Building
should help to clear confusion.
d. B.3. (a) Per complex: One Complex identification sign per each entrance to the
complex..."This would potentially allow more than one sign per street frontage. Say
there are two entrances on one street, instead of having one at each entrance, we would
rather there be one in-between those entrances. It accomplishes the same purpose. Plus,
remember that these signs are in addition to the wall signs the tenants are allowed per
street frontage.
i. b "Multi-Tenant Building Complex Directory: One per Facade." There is no need
for complex directory signs in front of every side of every building within the
complex. The purpose of this sign is to direct people once they are in the
complex. One sign per street frontage should do the trick just fine.
ii. b (ii) "sign must have a landscaped area equal to the sign area."This has been
removed because it is in the beginning of the permanent sign section.
e. B.4. Multi-Level Mixed—Use Buildings—Large difference between multi-level mixed
use buildings on US 31 and on Main Street. The Arts & Design requirements apply on
Main Street, but that may not be clear to users of the document. The new definition of
Multi-Tenant, Multi-Level Mixed Use should clear up any questions about if a building
qualifies or not: "A building with two or more floors where the ground floor is generally
reserved for Retail & Service uses and the upper stories are generally intended for
residential uses".
i. a"...sign per Facade..." See#9.a. reply.
iii. What about corners? We have a new "note" that says: A blade sign installed on
the corner will be considered facing two Street Frontages. This way we will be
able to keep a consistent, clean look on the building facades.
iv. (c)change "OR" to"AND." We believe either one wall sign or one ground sign
will be enough to let people know what businesses are in the upper stones. Also,
if they choose the wall signs, they can have one at each entrance because it's per
facade. Someone would only choose the ground sign if they did not need all the
wall signs. Also there would most likely be a door on the front to let people in —
they can always have window signs to take care of their needs too.
1 jD.1. Directory: Six feet. Same as all other sections. Done.
g. E.2. Right of way vs. thoroughfare again. See#8.a. reply.
h. E.3. Ground: This was changed to minimum 10 feet from minimum five. Five is our
preference. We will change to five feet.
. Another reference to changeable copy. See #4.b. reply.
11 .07.02.06 Window signs
a./Can we just call them window signs and eliminate the distinction? We'd prefer not to. If
V not,can we at least make maximum sign area in non-illuminated and illuminated
identical?We'd prefer not to. Unless you would like non-illuminated to go down to 4 sq.
ft. instead of 30% of the window area. But I don't think that would go over very well
with anyone...
ff. R.02-O8 Old Tow"
a. B.1.a Wily share if tenants lease a larger space? Our opinion is that's a landlord decision.
All tenants sharing the sign area will have to remain for Old Town.The small square
footage of suspended signs would look odd if all tenants were not equally represented.
LB.1.b Change to "per Façade." See#9.a. reply.
.2.b Change to "per Facade." See#9.a. reply.
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d. B.3 The old issue here is the allowance of some types of signage in a particular location
that are not allowed elsewhere. I think these specifications are to give Main Street a more
urban feel. Paintings on the side of buildings would be out of character for residential
appearing structures.
e. D. Change height to six feet to remain consistent throughout. Done.
f. E.4. What if it's not possible to locate the suspended sign further away? Again, the issue
of right of way vs. thoroughfare. See#8.a. reply.
g. E.6. Our opinion is that on-street signs are in keeping with the character of Old Town and
should be allowed. For that matter, so long as they do not impinge on pedestrian flow,
we're for allowing them in all retail locations. Portable signs will be allowed on Main St.
There will be a calculation to determine how much is allowed.
13. 25.07.02-09 Old Meridian District
a. C. No awning? Don't awnings signs currently exist? (E.g. Meridian Music?) Awning
signs are allowed—they are considered wall signs and are located under the wall sign
definition. But we will put it in the allowable sign so there is no confusion.
b. C.1.d. Wall signs 30 sq. as in Old Town instead of 16. Done.
c. C.1.e. Developed sites typically need ground signs. Why can't they be permitted? Why as
square footage reduced from 32 to 30?Why wouldn't this be according to frontage? Old
Meridian needs to be re-worked. Ground signs are allowed in Mixed Use, Office and
Special Use zones. They were left out of our updates—I'm not sure why though. We will
look into it and make sure that everything is consistent and fair.
14. 25.07.02-10 Carmel Drive-Range Line Rd. Overlay Zone
a. A. Why are ground signs not permitted so long as they are not in the right-of-way?
Because we are striving to bring all buildings up to the street. Ground signs are not
necessary when projecting signs and wall signs will take care of a tenant's needs. A
perfect example is KFC. A ground sign is unnecessary when the projecting sign does the
same thing— identifies to north and south bound traffic.
15. 25.07.03 Temporary Signs—see insert A
a. C. Should this be in the Administration and Enforcement section so it applies to all signs,
not just temporary ones? It is also in the permanent sign beginning section. So it is
covered.
b. D. Can we specify type of lighting allowable (e.g. covered spotlight on banner)? If you
want to prohibit interior illumination, say that. We don't need to. Banners cannot be
illuminated internally; otherwise they would not be a banner. If the business wants
indirect lighting through parking lot lights or building lights,that is fine. I don't think we
need to call that out specifically though. Or, if they want to install a temporary light to
shine up at the banner, that is fine too.This is why we say illumination is permitted on
interim signage pending permanent signage banners and business opening/closing
banners.
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