HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes TAC 09-20-00
Carmel/Clay Technical Advisory Committee Minutes
September 20, 2000
Members present were:
Laurence Lillig – Carmel DOCS John South – Ham. Co. Soil & Water
Scott Brewer – Carmel Urban Forester Chuck Shupperd – Indiana Gas
Charlotte Butler – Indiana Gas Ann McGlother – Indiana Gas
Dick Hill & Craig Parks – Carmel Eng. Steve Broermann – Ham. Co. Highway
Steve Cash – Ham. Co. Surveyor’s Gary Hoyt – Carmel Fire Dept.
Parkwood West Rezone (154-00 Z)
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The site is located on the northeast corner of West 96 Street and Spring Mill Road. The
site is zoned S-2/residence. Filed by Philip A. Nicely of Bose McKinney & Evans for
Duke-Weeks Realty.
Steve Granner, Bose McKinney & Evans, and Pete Harrington, Duke Weeks
Construction, presented the case regarding the PUD filed for the property. The parcel is a
part of the Valinet property. Approximately one year ago a rezone petition was filed that
encompassed all three quadrants of I-465 and Meridian. Those petitions were withdrawn.
Now only the southwest quadrant is contemplated for the PUD. TAC members received
just a conceptual site plan. On Monday of this week, an amended plan was distributed.
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The west garage was a grade-plus-one garage and the length from north of 96 Street to
the interstate. It changed to a grade-plus-two garage. The deck on the south half is taken
to the north half. Steve Granner distributed a site plan for the property. The alterations
are minor. Three five-story office buildings are proposed for the site. They would have
546,000 square feet of gross leasable area. The petitioner anticipates not more than two
sit-down restaurants (7,500 square feet each) at the outlot to the east. The main entrance
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will be off 96 Street. There will be a water feature at the loop area between the
buildings. The plan minimizes the elevation of the buildings facing south. There will be
another water feature in connection with the retention pond along the interstate. A traffic
signal is a proposed at the entrance. There has been discussion about a signal or
roundabout at Spring Mill Road. An auxiliary entrance is planned between Kenwood and
Illinois along the east end of the parking garage. The plan does not show the proposed
right in/right out “only” in the outlot area. This is conceptual plan; the petitioner will
return to TAC with construction drawings if the rezone and master plan are approved.
Dick Hill sent a letter to the petitioner. Engineering reserves comment until construction
drawings are received. Their biggest concern is the entrances, their widths, and their
locations.
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Chuck Shupperd believes the buildings will utilize gas service. He needs to know a date
as far as possible in advance as the service line is some distance away. It will be brought
under I-465 from the north or west. Perhaps this proposal could combine with other
projects nearby as a joint venture.
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Steve Broerman said a roundabout is planned for 96 Street and Spring Mill Road. There
should be completed plans for it a week from today. Mr. Broermann will contact the
petitioner for right of way requirements. He will ask for some participation in the
construction of that roundabout. Steve Granner suggested contacting Pete Harrington and
Steve Fehribach, their traffic engineer. Steve Broermann thinks it will shift 40 feet to the
north. This may change. A letter will be written. He is concerned with the entrances and
how to build left-turn entrances without being in the flow of the roundabout.
Peter Harrington asked if the roundabout is slated to be built with or without this project.
Mr. Broermann said it would be. Indianapolis will obtain the right of way on the south
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side of 96 Street. Indianapolis must obtain the land but they are not always cooperative.
Steve Broermann stated shifting to the north might avoid problems.
John South commented on the large size of the parking lot. By increasing the parking
garage and reducing the paved area, a larger amount of land would be available for green
space. Mr. South is in favor of this. However, Mr. Harrington stated the extra height of
parking structure may cause the project to not be well received. John South still likes the
change.
Scott Brewer distributed a copy of the letter he wrote yesterday. He suggested
consideration of constructed soils that are a mixture of standard sized stone, top soil, and
an organic binder. It can be structurally compacted for building purposes. Sidewalks and
plazas can be put over it. It provides space for tree root growth which results in better
landscaping. Mr. Brewer can provide information on constructed soils. It may be
possible to utilize different areas for landscaping. He also will give suggestions of
different plantings for the berms.
Gary Hoyt and Bruce Knott understand this plan is conceptual. The buildings will be
sprinkled. The parking garage will have a riser and Knox boxes will be installed. The
parking garages will not be underground. The water distribution plans and fire hydrant
locations will be needed later.
Laurence Lillig asked about the status of the traffic study. Steve Granner did not know.
An October hearing date is anticipated. Mike Hollibaugh will set the date for the traffic
study to be submitted. If the study is not received by that date, it will be necessary to
change the hearing date to the November meeting. Mr. Lillig stated the Plan Commission
wants the traffic study prior to the hearings. He asked when the study will be available.
Discussion followed regarding the hearing date. A meeting will be scheduled for
Laurence Lillig and Steve Granner to discuss the PUD in detail.
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Five Ten Subdivision (155-00 PP; 156-00 SP)
The site is located at 510 First Avenue Northwest. The site is zoned R-2/residence. Filed
by David R. Barnes of Weihe Engineers for Ruth Marie Bolt.
Stan Neal presented the primary plat information for the Five-Ten Subdivision. The
location was cited. The petitioner wishes to divide the 1.95-acre parcel into four lots. It
is presently described as a metes and bounds property. The division will place the main
house, which fronts First Avenue, on lot one. The small house behind it will be on lot
two. Lots three and four will have no improvements. The petitioner does not intend to
build houses on them. The goal is to simply plat the ground.
Craig Sharp sent a letter to David Barnes. He asked for a non-access easement along the
Monon Trail. It can be a 10-foot non-access easement for the back lots. Stan Neal
agreed. Mr. Parks stated half of the back lots are encompassed with a legal drain. Stan
Neal will not ask to have them removed. Laurence Lillig stated the non-access is just
vehicular. Mr. Parks agreed.
Chuck Shupperd is concerned about an easement to serve the two lots. Stan Neal said
there are no plans to improve the parcels. Laurence Lillig said the purpose is to separate
the property so the second house can be sold. Division into lots three and four is to
reserve the ground behind the properties that front on First Avenue. In the future, the lots
could be platted as they would have already gone through a primary plat process. Right
now lots three and four are not eligible for building permits.
There were no other TAC comments.
Dixie Highway Addition, Lot 7 (159-00 PP Amend; 160-00 SP)
The site is located at 10801 North College Avenue. The site is zoned R-3/ residence.
Filed by David R. Barnes of Weihe Engineers for Daniel Cage.
Stan Neal explained that his client owns lot seven. Mr. Cage wants to split off an 8,000
square foot parcel with frontage on Broadway into two parcels. The Broadway parcel
will be sold for a building lot.
Steve Broermann asked if Mr. Neal had any questions about his letter. Stan Neal did not.
John South stated the soils are poorly drained. He does not know if there is a subsurface
drain. Mr. Neal responded there is drainage in place; it should not be a problem.
There were no additional comments.
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Little Farms Addition, Lots 14 and (157-00PP Amend; 158-00 SP)
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The site is located on the northeast corner of East 105 Street and Combs Street. The site
is zoned R-3/residence. Filed by David R. Barnes of Weihe Engineers for David
Harbison.
Stan Neal explained the proposed action would create three lots. The existing houses are
on the south end of lots 14 and 15. The north 120 feet of those two lots has been sold to
his client. All three lots need to be platted into buildable lots to obtain a building permit.
Chuck Shupperd had no comment.
Steve Broermann spoke with Stan Neal yesterday.
John South said a basement was not recommended; surface and subsurface drainage is
needed.
Laurence Lillig inquired whether they had any success with the neighbor. Paul Reis has
been retained to communicate with the neighbors.
There were no other comments.
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96 Street Office Campus (UV)
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The site is located on the northwest corner of East 96 Street and Day Drive. The site is
zoned S-2/residence. Filed by Charles D. Frankenberger of Nelson & Frankenberger for
Paragus Partners.
Charlie Frankenberger represented the contract purchasers, Paragus Partners. He
introduced Gary Ritz and Mike Mance, Paragus, and Dennis Olmstead, Stoeppelwerth &
Associates. This real estate is L shaped and contains 5.7 acres. It is located west of
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Keystone Avenue on the north side of 96 Street, adjacent and west of Tom Wood Lexus,
and east of Haverstick Road. Mr. Frankenberger used a color rendering to further cite
location. The parcel is zoned S-2. There have been substantial changes in the area which
make development of the real estate consistent with the S-2 classification. The petitioner
requests a use variance. The proposal for general office use is accomplished by dividing
the site into three areas. The plan will retain the green belt areas that were made part of
the commitment when a use variance, excluding a portion of the parcel, was previously
granted for Finance Center Credit Union. The Supreme Court of the United States has
interpreted some regulations that in turn restricted the growth of a federal credit union.
Consequently, the Finance Center Credit Union decided it could not expand to this area
even though they purchased the land. Now, the petitioner is entering into a contract with
Credit Union and Elton Palmer to develop the land for office use.
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Chuck Shupperd suggested a drainage and utility easement be planned. Mr.
Frankenberger agreed. Dennis Olmstead recommended an easement from the front side
because of the restrictions of the committed buffering around the perimeters. The right of
way will be private.
Steve Broermann has not written a letter but will do so. The entrance on Day Drive does
not meet intersection offset requirements. The petitioner needs to consider relocating it.
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The distance is 200 feet from the 96 Street intersection. The right of way for 96 Street
is a 75 foot half with a 50 foot corner cut. A dedication is needed for these. The off site
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improvements to 96 Street must be reviewed.
Laurence Lillig questioned whether Day Drive is a private street. Mr. Broermann does
not know. Mr. Lillig believes the residential lots on Day Drive are part of a survey. He
inquired if the petitioner had any interest in dedicating the land. Mr. Olmstead stated his
client only has control of the west side of the road not the east side. Laurence Lillig
believes the Tom Wood Lexus dealership has no controlling interest in the Day Survey
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property and that it is not dedicated. There is a 50-foot dedicated right of way on 96
Street. An additional 25 feet are needed to make it 75 feet. Mr. Frankenberger stated
when they obtained a use variance for the Credit Union they dedicated, per the County’s
request, additional right of way. The amount satisfied the requirements a couple of years
ago. Mr. Lillig stated the November 1999 Thoroughfare Plan increased the size to 75
feet. The land is called the Day Survey and is not a recorded subdivision. Transfer and
Mapping has a copy of the survey drawing. Mr. Broermann will check all of this. He
stated the County would not approach Tom Wood for the additional 25 feet until there are
definite plans. Laurence Lillig added that Tom Wood Lexus was part of another
residential survey, but was superceded when it converted to commercial use.
John South sent a letter with two comments. The Miami soils are suitable for commercial
development. The proposed drainage plan would enhance the neighborhood drainage.
Gary Hoyt was told the buildings would not be sprinkled. He requested plans showing
water distribution plan. Knox boxes are also requested for the buildings for Fire
Department access.
Scott Brewer has not written a letter. The previous use variance was granted in either the
spring or summer of 1997. Charlie Frankenberger will get the docket number. The
approval has expired. Mr. Brewer said this is a completely forested site. He is concerned
about keeping as many trees as possible. He may ask for reforestation, not necessarily on
the site. The plans indicate approximately 75 percent of the trees will be removed. There
are safety issues regarding the pond. It will be fenced. Mr. Brewer feels the landscaping
plant choices are good.
Laurence Lillig believes he has discussed the Department’s issues. Mr. Frankenberger
understands DOCS’ position. What has been filed is substantially the same.
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Scott Brewer asked if the woods have been evaluated. They have not. Mr. Brewer may
require that also. He has a copy of the landscape plans.
Dennis Olmstead said the parking area can be pushed back. There is a transitional yard
requirement of five feet between the curb and right of way. Scott Brewer will check on
the buffer. He knows screening will be required. Dennis Olmstead thinks 30 feet are
needed. Mr. Frankenberger stated when they install the buffers for the neighbors and
accommodate their drainage situation and improve the neighbors’ drainage, the site is
compressed to the point where it becomes undevelopable. Scott Brewer will work with
the petitioner for landscape suggestions.
Discussion followed regarding wetland landscaping. Dry basins sometimes change.
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Dennis Olmstead stated they would have to get into the center of 96 Street and replace a
section of storm pipe. He requested a meeting with Steve Broermann. Dennis Olmstead
said all water comes across the site to drain under Day Drive through a 12-inch pipe.
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There are a lot of obstructions. There is an 18-inch pipe in the middle of 96 Street.
Dennis Olmstead stated they have an operations analysis from Fehribach Engineering.
Carmel Office Park, Phase IV (Site Plan)
The site is located on the southwest corner of Gradle Drive and Third Avenue Southwest.
The site is zoned I-1/Industrial. Filed by Mark Settlemyre of Cornestone Surveys for
William J. Sollenberger.
Mark Settlemyre and Dale Sollenberger presented the proposed plans for building four in
Carmel Office Park. Buildings one and two have been constructed; building three will
soon be started. The only significant difference is the entrance that will be off an existing
drive from the property to the south. The back of the building will tie into the docking
area for building three. There will be a couple of curb inlets. Storm water will drain into
the existing pond that was improved.
Craig Parks requested a special meeting because there have been so many changes on the
site. The detention area in the storm sewer crossing needs to be in place before any more
storm water flows into it. The crossing has never been done. Mr. Sollenberger said the
land has been final graded and seeded. It is stabilized and only the crossing is needed.
Dick Hill expressed confusion because when phase three came through building four was
included in the site plan. The building was on phase three plans that were reviewed and
approved. Just the shape of the building changed. Previously, Kate Boyle asked the
petitioner to show all of the buildings on the early plans. Now, this is a more specific
plan for that parking lot and building. Craig Parks noted the drainage calcs and square
footage do not match. Mark Settlemyre responded that the building is smaller and the
parking lot is greater. Dick Hill requested a meeting.
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Chuck Shupperd told petitioners the Gas Company has a main there. He gave them the
business card of a commercial/industrial rep. The Gas Company will need loads and sites
for the meter.
John South wrote a letter and it was received. There are a few detail items that were not
addressed; most deal with erosion control plan and improvements needed. A simple
construction sequence is required. The symbols for the silt fence need to be shown. The
Notice of Intent needs to be submitted to IDEM for erosion control.
Gary Hoyt wrote a letter. He understands the building will not be sprinkled. A Knox box
is requested. Mark Settlemyre agreed.
Scott Brewer did not receive landscape plans.
Laurence Lillig asked if the building would be used as a day care center. It has changed
to an office/warehouse use.
Gary Hoyt asked the types of materials to be stored. Mr. Sollenberger said the most
intense case would be landscape types of chemicals. He thinks it will be space that local
reps might use. He will submit plans to the State of Indiana each time a space is leased.
Steve Cash needs outlet permits for discharge into the J.W. Hawkins Drain. He
investigated the status of the discharge which predated the study that established the
restriction on the Hawkins. They comply with the watershed allowable discharge. The
on site storm design falls under the jurisdiction of the City of Carmel.
Merchants’ Pointe Subdivision (161-00PP)
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The site is located at the southwest corner of East 116 Street and North Keystone
Avenue (SR 431). The site is zoned B-8/business and is located within the SR 431
Overlay Zone. Filed by James J. Nelson of Nelson & Frankenberger for The Linder
Group.
Attorney Jim Nelson presented the case and introduced Buddy Hennessey, The Linder
Company, and Phil Warrenberg, Weihe Engineers. The 14-acre parcel was part of
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Woodland Country Club and is located at the southwest corner of 116 Street and
Keystone Avenue. The proposed mixed-use development will be known as Merchants’
Pointe. The real estate is in the process of being annexed to the City of Carmel. Mr.
Nelson is confident the ordinance will pass favorably on November 6, 2000, the second
reading and final action. A primary plat has been submitted that provides for the division
of real estate into seven commercial lots to accommodate the number of buildings
recommended by the Plan Commission for this mixed used development. It includes the
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dedication of the right of way adjacent to 116 Street and dedication of an extension
southward of AAA Way. Their landscape plan has been revised according to Scott
Brewer’s suggestions. The petitioner is proposing internal lighting along the single
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internal street that is consistent with Merchants’ Square lighting. Location of light
fixtures is given on the plan.
Dick Hill sent the petitioner a letter. Jim Nelson gave a copy to Gary Linder and Phil
Warrenberg. Mr. Hill asked if the storm sewers would be dedicated or private. Buddy
Hennessey said those in the roadway will be dedicated and the stubs could stay private.
Craig Parks is concerned where they run into the pond. The pipe dives and a large
section will be under water. Mr. Hennessey stated it is split into two watersheds to get
one side around the pipeline and one crossing. Woodland Country Club requested they
be shallow and the outlet be submersed. There is a drop structure into the pond with a
water cover of one to two feet. Dick Hill asked if the project would be brought in lot by
lot. Jim Nelson responded that it has not been determined. Ideally, they would plat all
seven lots at once and will proceed to Plan Commission in November or December on
two of the lots. Phil Warrenberg supported that approach as it would more be simple.
Laurence Lillig told the petitioners they have the option to do all of the lots together and
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that the Engineering Department prefers it that way. The dedication of the 116 Street
right of way will be accomplished by the plat. The street lights will be dedicated to the
City. Craig Parks asked that electrical plans be included with construction to show
routing. The City would prefer that these new lights identically match those in
Merchants’ Square. Buddy Hennessey stated sidewalks are planned on one side of the
road and cross walks are provided to the buildings. Laurence Lillig told him that
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subdivision requirements call for sidewalks on both sides. Lots 1, 2, and 3 along 116
Street are essentially two triple-frontage lots and one single through lot configuration.
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An eight-foot multi use path is required on 116Street. There are no walks on the south
side of the street. Mr. Lillig prefers concrete sidewalks as required on both sides. Mr.
Hennessey said an eight-foot asphalt path is less costly if done with the streets. Laurence
Lillig suggested the matter be explored if it is cheaper to do an eight-foot asphalt path.
He will have that discussion with the Engineering Department and Steve Engelking. If
the developer prefers concrete, that is acceptable. Some green space is lost with the
wider walkway. It might be okay, in a small internal situation like this, to not have a
grass strip between sidewalk and road if the walkway is wider. Dick Hill noticed the
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water and sewer service is going across 116 Street. Mr. Hennessey said they have been
allowed an open cut. Jim Nelson understands that the road and light improvements will
be part of the TIF district as established by the Council.
Chuck Shupperd believes the street will be dedicated and have a 10 or 15 foot utility
easement on either side of the right of way. Buddy Hennessey said the storm structures,
sanitary laterals, and fire hydrants will be padded up and in conjunction with the road.
Woodland County Club is getting ready to start. There is a topsoil/subsoil exchange
program for this project. They will take the topsoil for the mound work and in exchange
will give Merchants’ Point some pad soil for low lots. It will be temporarily seeded until
April when the road work begins.
Steve Cash has met on site to follow up on a previous TAC meeting with Jay Gibson,
Brian Sullivan, and a member of the homeowners’ association for the area south of the
golf course. The drainage plan is integral for the overall plans for the golf course. One is
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predicated on the other happening. Regarding the golf course design, the amount of run
off is being reduced because of size of the detention area. Steve Cash will follow up with
a letter. The site will probably be annexed on November 6, 2000. He recommends
consideration of how the submerged outlet will be maintained. Buddy Hennessey said
the pipes are 36 inches and 42 inches in size. Mr. Cash has some concerns downstream
of the golf course. The solution to the problem exists in the enlargement of the ditch
south of the golf course. It needs to be dredged. This is not a county regulated drain. It
should be dredged and improved. However, several of the homeowners would loose a
portion of their lots. Mr. Cash will have other suggestions that will be addressed in a
letter.
John South had some items that need attention. Some other erosion control plan is
needed at the southeast corner. He asked where the run off would go when the topsoil is
stripped. The area is larger than just Lot 5. The golf course has some responsibilities
regarding the soil exchange. There is a silt fence for Merchant Squares’ portion. The
sediment trap may be an issue. Mr. Hennessey thinks it should be addressed at the golf
course stage.
Gary Hoyt sent a letter to Jim Nelson. The placement of the fire hydrants looks good.
Gary Linder arrived.
Scott Brewer’s letter regarding point 2 was discussed. A 30-foot green belt buffer will be
provided. The exact location is being addressed. Mr. Brewer feels it needs to be located
on the owner’s or tenant’s property. They spoke earlier about tree preservation. In some
of the planting areas, a constructed soil is recommended. It is comprised of standard
stone particles, top soil, and an organic binder. It can be compacted for sidewalk
installation on top. Roots can grow into this soil. Scott Brewer will provide information
on constructed soils.
Laurence Lillig said Bill Akers says a name must be submitted for the north/south
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segment of the road. It comes up to 116 Street. This is typical where a street curves and
it will not impact the addressing. The name should be submitted to Bill Akers.
Merchants’ Point Drive has been approved as a name. AAA Drive is a north/south street.
This is an east/west street. As each lot develops, specific ADLS plans will be submitted.
The parking lot space calculations and other detail review will be done at that time. Mr.
Lillig will prepare a primary plat letter regarding the placement of easements and access.
Craig Parks stated Engineering would prefer sidewalks be installed by section. There is a
great possibility of the sidewalks being torn up during construction. This will be further
discussed at a latter date.
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Mayflower Park, Block 1, Lot 2 (Site Plan)
The site is located at 9760 Mayflower Park Drive. The site is zoned I-1/industrial. Filed
by Richard J. Kelly of Paul I. Cripe, Inc. for Kipp Brothers.
Rich Kelly and Mike Nix, Smith Development & Construction Co., general contractor on
the project, presented the case. The Kipp Brothers project is a 100,000 square foot
warehouse facility with an office component. They have met previously with some of the
TAC members. A letter has been written to Laurence Lillig responding to the various
comments to date.
Chuck Shupperd told the petitioner that gas is available. He gave them the business card
of a commercial rep serving the area. The Noblesville office will handle that.
Steve Cash sent a letter this morning. He asked if the swale is sized to accommodate the
drainage that flows on the site from the northwest. Mr. Cash thinks there is quite a bit of
area that comes in. Mr. Cash wants calcs stating how much acreage flows from the
northwest. He has the same comment on the ditch, or swale, in front. He did not see a
number for acreage. Rich Kelly said they do not have numbers. They looked at the
ultimate capacity of the pipes, rather than watershed. There is not a set of plans that
accurately depicts what is there. Steve Cash has plans what were prepared by Mid State
Engineering. There is a 24-inch pipe under Mayflower Drive from the east to the west.
It is unclear what that watershed drains. Mr. Kelly will go to Steve Cash’s office to look
at the plans.
John South believes the swale looks like a combination swale and detention area. He
feels it is oversized for the capacity.
Steve Cash asked if the ditch was designed also as detention. Rich Kelly said the plans
he reviewed in John South’s office indicated portions of the ditch were identified as
detention facilities. That is not the case for this particular portion. Retention calculations
were indicated or included immediately to the north. Steve Cash says accommodations
need to be made. This must be investigated. He wants it pinned down. Rich Kelly asked
for a meeting next week.
Steve Cash recommended installing a casting where the pipes tie into the 5 X 2 box for
access. This will allow maintenance of the connection. If it is just blind tapped, there
will be problems in the future if the grouting washes out. Some areas washed out in the
business park. Without an access, someone would have to crawl 80 feet with a bucket of
grout. Rich Kelly said access was added to the revised plans. They should have been
delivered to Steve Cash last week.
John South wrote a letter at the end of August. Turf reinforcement blocks can be as
effective as the gravel drive that goes around the back of the building. This is Mr.
South’s personal preference. He is not sure how the Fire Department feels about it. That
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type of block allows more infiltration than just the gravel drive. The swale on the west
side of the property line needs to have grades indicated.
Gary Hoyt would like a Knox box on the building. There is a new contractor since the
meeting. Mike Nix agreed to include a Knox box.
Scott Brewer received the petitioner’s letter Monday and has not had time to review it.
He did not get a revised set of plans. Laurence Lillig said everything on file is dated
August 17, 2000. The plants must be identified. There is no tree preservation along the
back because of a drive that will be installed there. Rich Kelly stated tree preservation,
fencing, and other specific requirements are dealt with on the revised set of plans. Mr.
Scott will review them. If a significant portion of the woods is removed, then
reforestation might be appropriate. The west side may need to be planted with whips.
Laurence Lillig told the petitioner they would not need to go through the secondary plat
process. It can be divided out as metes and bounds. It will be referred to as Block 1, Lot
2 for purposes of reference. It appears that all comments have been addressed.
The start date will be in three weeks. The petitioner is filing plans with the state Friday.
99 Gray Road Rezone (162-00Z)
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The site is located northwest of East 96 Street and Gray Road. The site is zoned S-
1/residence. Filed by James J. Nelson of Nelson & Frankenberger for C.P. Morgan.
Charlie Frankenberger represented J.C. Hart and C.P. Morgan. Also in attendance were:
John Hart, J.C. Hart, Inc., Greg Snelling, CSO Engineers, Mark Boyce, C.P. Morgan,
Bob Doster, CSO Engineers, and Gary Weaver, Gary Weaver Architects. Mr.
Frankenberger introduced his client’s request for a rezone of real estate located west of
Gray Road and north of 96th Street. The parcel is approximately 45 acres in size; 20
acres are a lake. It is presently zoned S-1 and they are requesting a change to R-5
classification to permit multi family and office buildings. Mr. Frankenberger said the use
is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan. The office use aspect of the R-5 is a special
use and will, therefore, next be heard by the Board of Zoning Appeals. Laurence Lillig
will investigate this. The real estate was illustrated on an aerial photo. Mr.
Frankenberger showed the location as rectangular in shape except for the Bottamiller
Enterprises property. The plan is to appear before the Plan Commission on October 17,
2000.
Dick Hill mailed his comments regarding this case and understands this parcel will be
annexed. Mark Boyce believes they have a good chance at receiving a rezone. Gary
Weaver used a display board to illustrate the development. They have tried to create a
project where the office buildings and apartment architecture blend together. The
buildings are oriented so parking is internalized. Gray Road focuses to the clubhouse.
All of the surrounding buildings will front the open space. The lake will be extended
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back into the project. Gray Road has street trees and a hedge row. Williamson Run
residents are concerned about looking into the project. The buildings are turned a little to
make open space visible. There will not be a continuous line of buildings. They are
working on a landscape plan with the neighbors. There will be a jogging path around the
perimeter of the lake that will be back dropped with a fence and double line of spruce
trees and hemlocks. The neighborhood is fairly comfortable with the landscape plan.
Elevations of the buildings were shown. The Office building would be C.P. Morgan’s
corporate headquarters. From the direction of the water, the building is three stories.
From the front, the building is two stories. Mr. Weaver showed a rendering of the front
of the office building and the apartments. They will be three story and contain one and
two bedroom units. Garages will be underneath and directly across from the apartments.
Parking ratios are in access of two to one. A clubhouse rendering was also shown. There
is an overall consistency to the architecture.
Dick Hill asked for justification of the single curb cuts. A traffic study done by Steve
Fehribach indicated a single entrance was acceptable. However, the entry lane needs to
be wider; 16-foot is recommended. Carmel requires 18 feet. The passing blister, accel,
and decel lanes shown in the report are consistent with the engineer’s report. Internal
roads are all private. The majority of construction work will be done all at once along
with the roads. The plan is designed to have flexibility. The perimeter treatment will be
done all in one phase. The western boundary will have a black vinyl-covered chain link
fence. Bob Doster responded to comments. Regarding questions about the modification
of the floodway, he stated current work to the south has improved their situation. The
Dan Young work narrows the floodway. Their letter of map revision will move the line
to the intersection. That dirt work will be done this fall or early spring. The petitioner
will not be doing a letter of map revision. The required DNR permits for outlets will be
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submitted. Dick Hill asked if the sanitary sewer connection plans match those of the 96
Street Auto Park. Bob Doster has not received their plans but knows their grade is about
as low as it can be. Dick Hill said the latest plans show stubbing out to the north property
line. Bob Doster asked if, when widening Gray Road by three feet, must they resurface
that entire section of street as well. Mr. Hill said normally the City asks that it be
widened to the cross section of the existing pavement and meet the minimum City
standards. Steve Broermann said the road was repaved in 1992. The big issue is the
annexation. If the annexation occurs before the building, then the Highway Department
is out of the loop. Mark Boyce believes it should be annexed before. The Highway
Department will probably stay out because this it is a voluntary annexation. Steve
Broerman will send a letter to Bob Doster. Much will depend on Dick Hill’s letter.
Chuck Shupperd stated there is a gas main on Gray Road. John Hart indicated they are
not likely to use gas for the apartments. However, the community center will to use gas.
Steve Cash met with Bob Doster previously and sent a letter out this morning with brief
comments. Mr. Cash requested a letter if the parcel is to be annexed before construction.
Carmel Creek is not a county regulated drain and an outlet request is not required. The
County will offer to maintain it. The floodway line was shown on the plan. He
recommends also showing actual elevations at various points on the project. Then it can
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be established where the building is to be constructed. According to the schematic, the
building appears to be close to the water elevation. The water level is high in that area.
Mr. Doster responded that the wall height would be two feet above flood level. Because
of the lake’s location, there will be very little change in the area. Steve Cash requested a
copy of the drainage report. Since this is a residential area as well, he recommends
installing a safety ledge. The lake was a borrow pit. On the water feature, there will be a
safety ledge. The details indicate one foot to the water level and dropping down to a
safety ledge and then one to three after that. There are no specs on the existing lake. It
looks like a shallow shelf. However, it was dug at most severe slopes. Steve Cash
recommended notching out and pulling back to create a safety ledge. Bob Doster will
investigate this.
John South stated the soil conditions are better suited for the proposed use than a
residential use. The floodway has been discussed. He asked if some kind of erosion
control treatment was needed because of fluctuating water levels. Mr. Doster responded
that they are not putting too much water into the lake, but there is some fluctuation on the
eastern bank. There may have some vulnerability. If Martin Marietta is pumping, then
the water table can be lowered three or four feet exposing the bank. An optional detail
plan may be added stating if there is a need caused by water level and wave action. John
South said it is appropriate to do this up front. He recommends rip rap if fluctuation is
not too great. Also, wetland plants can help. The banks are all vegetated now. The
perimeter protection along south edge is not adequate. The fill should start along the
property line and work northward to create a berm to discourage water. Bob Doster said
there will be a swale at the bottom of the retaining wall. Mr. South recommended getting
the swale established first. Carmel’s forced main goes through there and serves as kind
of a swale. Seeding should be shown for the off site sewer.
Gary Hoyt spoke to Bob Doster yesterday. The apartment buildings and office buildings
will all be sprinkled. It was agreed that a knox box will be added on the club house and
office buildings. If all the buildings are keyed the same, one box will suffice. A single
story office building would not require a sprinkler system. The fire hydrants are okay.
The pressure of that Indianapolis water line is not known.
Scott Brewer has not written a letter. He requested a separate meeting to discuss tree
preservation and open space issues. He would like more complete plans. The number of
plants/trees is not indicated. Mark Boyce agreed to provide that.
Laurence Lillig stated an office retail proposal requires a special use. If the property is
divided, the subdivision process will be required. A variance is needed on the north side
for the building setback. Mr. Lillig asked about a second, emergency access along the
northern edge. It is not shown on the plans. The petitioners discussed the second access,
but did not determine if it is necessary. This must be discussed with Gary Hoyt. There
will be 266 multi-family units. The minimum floor area will from 700 to 1,100 square
feet. Laurence Lillig stated Carmel Ordinance requires 800 square feet per unit in R-5
zoning. Sidewalks are required on the south side of the drive to connect to the sidewalks
in the office area. Mr. Lillig wants the petitioner to consider extending another sidewalk
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to tie into the north portion of the property. The dimension of the north property line to
the drive is 650 feet. Laurence Lillig requests all four elevations with the packets. Gary
Hoyt believes an emergency access would be an excellent addition. Mark Boyce agreed.
Mr. Hoyt can give him suggestions. The name of the development should be submitted
by the petitioners to the Communications Department.
Overture Subdivision, Section 2 (164-00 SP)
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The site is located on the northwest corner of East 126 Street and Hazel Dell Parkway.
The site is zoned S-1/residence.
Dave Sexton, Schneider Corporation, and John Talbot, Director of Land Development
Estridge, presented the case. Dave Sexton explained the case for Cort Crosby, also of
Schneider Corp. The secondary plat is for Section 2, the final section. It is located at the
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northwest corner of 126 Street and Hazel Dell Parkway. Mr. Sexton has received some
comments.
Dick Hill stated many of his comments concern Hazel Dell Parkway. Cort Crosby
related to Mr. Sexton that he agreed with the City’s comments. The plan for the sanitary
sewer is to bore underneath Hazel Dell Parkway and connect to the existing manhole on
the east side. Mr. Talbot stated their contractor said there should be no problem; this will
not disturb traffic. They will be able to hit the elevation. The petitioner will extend the
storm sewer to lessen the length of the swale.
Chuck Shupperd believes this will be the same as the first section.
Steve Cash requires no permits. The storm drains are under the City Engineer’s office.
John South recommends topsoil on the cut areas. A silt fence on the south and east sides
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of the project is needed to protect the road. Check dams are recommended along 126
Street. Lots that exceed three feet elevation difference should be totally seeded.
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Constructing the berm first along Hazel Dell and 126 would prevent any storm water
from draining out onto the road. It might be more effective than silt fence. Dave Sexton
has no problem with these suggestions.
Gary Hoyt sent a letter and has no other requirements at this time.
Scott Brewer distributed his business cards. He did not receive landscape plans or open
space plans. These are required. Mr. Brewer will write a letter after reviewing plans.
Laurence Lillig stated the Plan Commission certificate only needs to appear on the first
page. The administrative version should be used. He needs better indication of where
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the breaks are. The direction “East” should be indicated on 126 Street. The streets are
public and need a 20-foot radius at the intersection. The dimensions of the
monumentation need to be indicated in the legend. The common areas must be numbered
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or lettered to agree with Section 1. Mr. Lillig assumes the right of way is irregular as a
result of the roundabout. He will review the plat more closely. The contact at Estridge
Company is John Talbot.
Estates of West Clay (166-00 SP
)
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The site is located on the northwest corner of West 131 Street and Ditch Road. The site
is zoned S-1/residence. Filed by Steve Pittman of Pittman Partners.
Steve Pittman, Bob McKinney, and Neal Smith, Pittman Partners, and Rich Kelly, Paul I.
Cripe, attended the TAC meeting to discuss The Estates. The proposed 45 acre, 25 acre
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subdivision is located at the northwest corner of Ditch Road and 131 Street. The
petitioner hopes to receive approval September 21, 2000 to allow the start of construction
this fall.
Dick Hill and Craig Parks stated the parcel is out of the City’s jurisdiction.
Chuck Shupperd said Indiana Gas has a main in the area. It will be in the drainage/utility
easement.
Steve Broermann will fax his letter to the petitioner and City. He showed Rich Kelly
some changes he would like added to the entrance crosswalk. The right of way should
include the corner cuts back into the intersection. This is a non-access easement on both
streets except for the two lots where there are driveways. Mr. Broermann has potential
concerns with the accel lane and possible passing blister totaling four lanes of traffic.
Perhaps they could create a refuge to cross only two lanes of traffic.
Steve Cash has not completed his review. He needs outlet requests for the Almond Ditch
and Elliott Creek. This will be petitioned to be a regulated drain. If successful, Mr. Cash
will not need an outlet request. It would become part of the County Drain system.
Procedural items, bonding, etc. will be required.
John South asked the petitioner to consider widening their temporary seeding because the
lots are large with a good deal of exposed area. Steve Pittman said they will seed
everything. In addition to the silt fence along the Almond Ditch, mounding needs to be
shown on the plans. Mr. South indicated, with a drawing on the plans, where three
sediment basins are needed while rough grading is being done.
Gary Hoyt said everything looks good.
Scott Brewer received a copy of the plans yesterday. He will send preliminary comments
later. The Austrian Pines and Pin Oaks not recommended as they have health and soil
issues. He suggested Bald Cypress or Dawn Redwood and Shummard Oaks. At the
north eyebrow, the hawthorns are planted too close to the spruces. More detail is needed
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on the tree preservation plans along the creek. The County Surveyor will request clearing
of the creek. Steve Cash recommended walking the site with the inspector. Scott Brewer
will attend that meeting. There will not be street trees along the avenues.
Laurence Lillig said his original statement, made in committee regarding orientation of
the houses, is correct. A primary plat amendment needs to be filed. If brought to the
department by the end of the week, he will put the case on the October agenda. Steve
Pittman said “Estates” is a holding name. Laurence Lillig recommends another name—it
is similar to numerous other subdivision names. Any lot that is within 50 feet of the
common area needs to be oriented toward the collector road. This can be accomplished
as a primary plat amendment. Or, the easement can be increased to 50 feet along the
edge of the four lots in question. This case will be heard on October 17, 2000.
Meadowlark Office Park Subdivision (165-00 PP)
The site is located in the 700 block of ProMed Lane. The site is zoned B-6/business.
Filed by Charles D. Frankenberger of Nelson & Frankenberger for Dauby O’Connor &
Zaleski.
Attorney Charlie Frankenberger introduced the case for the petitioner and explained that
Steve Dauby would join the meeting momentarily. Jim Douit, Mid States Engineering,
also attended the meeting. The six acres of real estate proposed for platting were
depicted on an aerial photo. The subdivision of the parcel, into five lots for five
buildings, is planned. This platting will allow for possible future sale of one of the
buildings. Without this action, the sale would create an illegal subdivision. The
petitioner must contend with 60 foot side yard and 120 foot aggregate side yard
requirements. They are asking for a variance of side yard. ProMed Lane has been
dedicated and accepted. This action eliminates the need for five variances.
Dick Hill had no comments.
Chuck Shupperd said gas service is available.
Steve Cash did not have comments as the site is annexed. He asked if the detention size
is for this area, with the five lots, or if it is for the additional buildings. Mr.
Frankenberger stated there are three buildings which will be built and two which exist.
The ADLS approval has been granted. Elevations are not needed in the petitioner’s
informational brochure. Mr. Lillig suggested taking elevations to the meeting.
John South had no other comments. The cross easements for parking and storm
easements are needed. Mr. Frankenberger stated that information will be in the
declaration of covenants. As residential covenants cover the use of real estate and
maintenance of common area, this commercial development will have covenants and an
owners’ association. There is no separate common area. The association will provide for
cross easements for parking and access. They will also provide for assessments on each
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for the maintenance of those areas. The association and covenants will provide control if
the lots are sold.
Gary Hoyt had no further conditions at this time.
Scott Brewer stated that since the property has been through ADLS he had no comments.
Laurence Lillig will prepare a letter on the plat for Jim Douit’s attention.
Indiana Municipal Power Agency (DP Amend/ADLS Amend)
The site is located at 11610 North College Avenue. The site is zoned B-6/business. Filed
by Adam DeHart of Keeler-Webb Associates for Indiana Municipal Power Agency.
Adam DeHart is working with Stanley Architects, in Zionsville, and the Indiana
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Municipal Power Agency on their existing facility at 116 and College Avenue. It was
built in 1989. The petitioner wishes to construct a two-story addition on the north side of
the facility with parking on the north and west sides of the building. The fire sprinkler
service connection and the sanitary site will be modified to accommodate the addition.
The storm drainage will also be changed to include the new parking lot and building area.
There will be new entrances on College Avenue and Technology Drive. The site has a
Meridian Technology Center sign and a required landscaping and buffer zone at the
corner. Current signage is a single wall sign. The petitioner proposes to install a new
ground sign like others in the park. This is a control communication board of directors
facility. This is an agency that combines 29 cities throughout Indiana as their own power
agency. These are city owned only. Anderson and Crawfordsville are examples. They
pool their resources to provide more economic pricing for their utilities. This facility is
completely electric with no gas.
Dick Hill will meet with Adam DeHart to resolve issues in his comment letter.
Chuck Shupperd had no comment
Steve Cash requested a permit for the Fertig Drain. Also, the outlet request permit should
be submitted. There is no difference in the direct and indirect forms.
John South needs a simple construction sequence. A water quality benefit will be derived
if the yard inlet moved away from the parking lot. This would allow some filtering by
the grass. Engineering wants a curb inlet. Mr. South will modify it slightly so it will
continue to be a turn down and spillway into the beehive. There could be in a landscape
strip to allow another double row of parking. There needs to be a beehive to pick up yard
drainage. Erosion control notes need to be added to the drawing. Technology Drive will
be the construction entrance. The new parking lot will be a staging area. The College
Drive entrance will be closed to construction traffic and general traffic until the site is
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complete. It will not be used until they occupy the structure. The kinks were put into the
road to discourage traffic through the site.
Gary Hoyt met with the project manager, Stan Dziacko. The hook ups look good.
Scott Brewer looked at the plans yesterday and will send a comment letter. The property
is zoned B-6. A 30-foot green belt is required. The residential borders need screening
from the parking lots. More landscaping is needed. Mr. DeHart stated there is a strip of
the Meridian Technology Center property that lies east of College Avenue. It is 100 or
150 feet wide. Consequently, the land across College Avenue is zoned B-6. It is
maintained as a common area buffer strip from the single-family home residence to the
east of the park. Mr. Brewer will check the map. Adam DeHart said this is also referred
to in the covenants. Nothing is planned on the south side. More landscaping is required
in the parking lot itself and some more new plantings are needed from the edge of the
parking lot to the north side. The dead landscaping needs to be removed. Vanderwolf
Pine is a dwarf variety. Scott Brewer does not recommend blue rug junipers as they do
not last very long. Tree protection details are needed where curbs will be cut into tree
roots on the north side.
Laurence Lillig has not reviewed the plans. He will write a letter. Commitments for
walks must be included at the meeting with Dick Hill and Craig Parks.
The TAC meeting adjourned at 4:10 p.m.
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