HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes TAC 11-15-00
Carmel/Clay Technical Advisory Minutes
November 15, 2000
Members present:
Laurence Lillig – Carmel DOCS John South – Ham. Co. Soil & Water
Scott Brewer – Carmel Urban Forester Chuck Shupperd – Indiana Gas
John Lester – Carmel Parks & Rec. Steve Cash – Ham. Co. Surveyor
Craig Parks – Carmel Eng. Gary Hoyt – Carmel Fire Dept.
Rick McClain – Cinergy
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96 Street Office Campus (UV-176-00)
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The site is located northwest of East 96 Street and Day Drive. The site is zoned S-
2/residence. Filed by Charles D. Frankenberger of Nelson & Frankenberger for Paragus
Partners.
The case was presented by Attorney Charles Frankenberger. He introduced Gary Ritz
and Michael Mance, Paragus, Inc. and Dennis Olmstead, Stoeppelwerth & Associates,
Inc. Mr. Frankenberger represented Paragus in connection with their application for a
use variance to permit office buildings on a site that is located west of Keystone Avenue
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and north of 96 Street. An aerial photograph was distributed to illustrate the rectangular
shape of the parcel. At the September TAC meeting, the site included not only what is
bordered with the white dotted line but also a smaller rectangular parcel to the southeast.
After that TAC meeting, the small part was eliminated. When the plan was presented to
the Board of Zoning Appeals, just the revised real estate was used. The petitioner
determined that two 5,000 square foot buildings might occupy the area of the one 10,000
square foot building. Another plan was sent. In light of the revised site, the Board of
Zoning Appeals requested return to TAC for review.
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John Lester believes this is part of the 96 Street Thoroughfare Plan. The required
sidewalk is not shown. Dennis Olmstead responded that it is in the County Thoroughfare
Plan. Laurence Lillig said it is the Carmel/Clay Plan. Dennis Olmstead questioned the
need to install a sidewalk or path as there is nothing that would cross this property.
Paragus probably will be the ultimate owners. He said the petitioner could commit to
extend across at a later time for future development. John Lester said as part of the
Thoroughfare Plan the sidewalk must be included. Dennis Olmstead will speak with the
County Highway Department to ensure the sidewalk will be out of the area torn up for
road improvements. Discussion followed on whether the sidewalk must be an eight or
ten foot asphalt path. Mr. Lester wants to link the community. Even in the township,
community paths are highly desired. His department wants to continue the thoroughfare
plan. Therefore, the petitioner must make a commitment. A path is typically within the
right of way. This probably will not affect their landscape plans. Charlie Frankenberger
believes there was a sidewalk commitment made in connection to the use variance
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granted to Finance Center Federal Credit Union. This has expired. Mr. Frankenberger
will consider this matter. Laurence Lillig stated the City has changed its language for
sidewalks. John Lester requested a copy of what the petitioner proposes.
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Chuck Shupperd stated there is a gas line at 96 Street. He asked if there would be a
utility easement in front or along the perimeter. A main will be required to connect the
two 5,000 square foot buildings and an easement is needed. Dennis Olmstead indicated
the easement would probably be located in front because of the buffer requirements.
Rick McClain had no comments.
John South said the previous plan gave more information on their drainage. The off site
connection point is the same. Dennis Olmstead said the easement would be across the
corner parcel that was previously included, provided it can be negotiated. The County
Highway Department stated if an easement cannot be negotiated, they will consider
allowing the storm sewer in the right of way.
Gary Hoyt sent a letter. He assumes there will be the same commitments. He previously
asked for one Knox box. The buildings will not be sprinkled.
Jeff Kendall confirmed that UV-176-00 is the only document number connected with this
case. Mr. Frankenberger believes this case was also at the September TAC.
Laurence Lillig explained that Scott Brewer would be joining the meeting later. He sent
a letter on October 23, 2000 asking for a written reply, which he has not received. Gary
Ritz responded that their landscaper would be in touch with Mr. Brewer. Dennis
Olmstead has had verbal communication with Steve Broermann. Some of the comments
directly related to the traffic analysis. Steve Fehribach is aware of those comments. Mr.
Olmstead is waiting for Steve Fehribach’s communication before officially responding in
writing. He hopes to do so this week. Laurence Lillig has not received plans for the two
5,000 square foot buildings. Charlie Frankenberger sent these on November 1, 2000. He
will provide another set to Mr. Lillig.
Brooks Landing at Prairie View, Section 1, Lots 15 & 16 (179-00 SP, V-208-00)
The site is located at 13107 & 13109 Franklin Hall Trail. The site is zoned S-1/residence.
Filed by Allan H. Weihe of Weihe Engineering for Zeller Construction.
Charlie Frankenberger presented the case and introduced Allan Weihe and Bruce Zeller.
He distributed a site plan. Mr. Zeller is a builder who constructed a residence in Brooks
Landing in the Prairie View community. He discovered after construction that the home
encroaches slightly into a side yard. To resolve that encroachment, the petitioner has
requested the affected lots, 15 and 16, be replatted. This would result in lot 15 giving lot
16 a small amount of real estate. The additional 149 square feet will bring the side yard
into compliance. The petitioner is now working through the replatting process and will
answer any questions.
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Craig Parks had no concerns and will write a letter to verify that.
John Lester and Chuck Shupperd had no comments.
Jeff Kendall asked the dimension from the dot to the original lot line. It is 2.5 or 2.6 feet.
The other sections of this subdivision had 7.5 foot side yard setbacks. It was assumed by
all this was the same. This replat would result in a 10-foot side yard setback.
Rick McClain had no comments.
John South thinks a continuous, straight lot line would make this easier. However, a
straight line would have taken the adjoiner out of correctness.
Laurence Lillig had no comments. He is waiting for proof of notice.
Hazel Dell Corner, Lot 1-Osco Drug (180-00 SP; 181-00 ADLS; SU-198-00; V-199-
00 through V-205-00)
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The site is located at 5790 East 131 Street. The site is zoned B-3/business. Filed by J.
Murray Clark of Clark Quinn Moses & Clark for American Partners.
Attorney Murray Clark represented American Partners. He introduced William Slusher,
architect for the project, and Mark Runkel with Schneider Corporation. The site is
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located at the northwest corner of 131 Street and Hazel Dell Road. It is comprised of
1.69 acres and is zoned B-3. The vacant, undeveloped commercial site is proposed for
an Osco Pharmacy with parking and a drive thru element. The special use request stems
from the fact that a drug store is a permitted special use for B-3. Mr. Clark described the
seven variances. They specifically deal with landscaping, setback, greenbelt, and signage
issues. In conjunction with these requests, an ADLS and secondary plat have been filed.
The building is a single story masonry exterior. Its height is twenty-five feet eight
inches. The 15,251 square foot size is conventional for Osco drugstores. Exterior
elevations showed a natural red brick and prairie clay color scheme. There will be 51
parking spaces with three handicap spots proposed. There will be two curb cuts at the
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southwest corner of 131 Street and the northeast corner of the site from Hazel Dell
Parkway. Mr. Clark believes the use is appropriate. The project was designed with much
attention to landscaping and mitigating impact for areas to the west and north. The two
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80 square-foot wall signs will be the principal signs facing south (131Street) and east
(Hazel Dell Parkway). The 56 square-foot sign is for the area above the drive thru
window. The ground sign is 24 square feet in size.
Craig Parks has not received plans and, therefore, unable to review them. He asked if the
infrastructure was in place. Hazel Del Corner is a commercial subdivision. Some
widening was approved along with curb cuts. Mr. Slusher stated the developer will do
the actual work and American Partners will participate.
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John Lester did not receive site plans. An earlier package indicated a path along 131
Street connecting the parkway to the existing asphalt path at the top of the hill. Mr.
Lester believes this commitment was made. He needs to see this on-site plan. Mr.
Slusher said the path would be included. It also connects to their parking lot.
Chuck Shupperd did not receive plans. However, he is familiar with that Hazel Dell
Corner and knows a gas line is there. Mr. Shupperd requested plans and a CAD drawing.
He sees no problems.
Jeff Kendall had no comments.
Rick McClain did not receive plans. Cinergy must see where the easements will be
located. He suggested an on-site meeting with the general contractor. Mr. McClain
wants to plan for the whole development. Schneider Corporation will be the civil
engineer for the entire project.
John South could not make any comments, as plans had not been received. The
petitioner may be required to submit a notice of intent for Rule 5 – the state statute
regarding construction erosion control. Mr. South will make comments after receiving
plans.
Gary Hoyt gave his business card to the presenters. He also needs plans.
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Laurence Lillig will place this project on the December 20 TAC agenda as no one
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received plans prior to this meeting. The Special Use aspect will go to the January 8
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BZA meeting. That evening is rescheduled from the original December 25 date for
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obvious reasons. The ADLS will be heard at the January 16 meeting. Mr. Lillig will
write comments specific to the plat. There are no further notice requirements. Only the
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Special Use and the variances need notice. The hearing date will be January 8
Steve Cash arrived at 10:06.
Hazel Dell Corner, Lot 6 – Children's World Learning Center (182-00 SP; 183-00
DLS; SU-206-00; V-207-00)
The site is located at 13320 Hazel Dell Parkway. The site is zoned B-3/business. Filed
by Darren T. Pittman of Falcon Engineering for Aramark Education.
Darren Pittman will serve as project engineer for the proposal. The petitioner is asking
for a special use and a sign variance. Mr. Pittman was at the July TAC for building and
site infrastructure. They are still working to get a sanitary sewer easement thru Delaware
Commons subdivision to the west. He is working with Steve Cash on the manhole
alignment.
Steve Cash did receive plans. He spoke to their permit inspector regarding the location of
manholes. Typically, they do not waiver from that standard. The petitioner requests
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closer than 30 feet. There are trees Aramark is trying to avoid. And, therefore, they want
to move manholes further from other trees. The original plan called for a 40-foot
easement, then it changed to a 30-foot easement. This constricts what they can do with
the sanitary sewer and causes movement closer to the mature trees. Steve Cash said they
could apply for a non-enforcement. They will need an outlet permit to discharge storm
water, a non-enforcement permit, and a crossing permit. Mr. Cash doubts the Hamilton
County Surveyor would vary from the standard of 30 feet. However, the petitioner can
request it. If they were encroaching only two or three feet, it may not be a big issue.
Steve Cash stated the underbrush must be cleared.
Craig Parks has not received comments on their letter. The petitioner is still working on
some issues. He will respond.
John Lester had no comments in July. He asked if a trail is still planned. Mr. Pittman
said there is an existing Delaware Commons trail. It will only be disturbed by a curb cut
along Hazel Dell Parkway.
Chuck Shupperd will come out of the subdivision across the street to serve this project.
He needs load and size of meter information.
Jeff Kendall gave the presenters his business card. He asked about lighting as the project
is directly next to the Delaware Commons subdivision. He needs to know the plan for
lighting at night and how this will impact the residential neighbor. Darren Pittman stated
there would be two parking lot lights shining back toward the building and downward. A
total of .1 foot candles is allowed at the lot line. Mr. Kendall understands security
lighting is needed in the evening, but suggests extreme caution in how they direct their
lighting.
Laurence Lillig stated the photo metric must have intensities indicated all the way to the
lot line and right of way line. The Department must have this information. Darren
Pittman agreed to provide it. He spoke with their architect and indicated a change may
be needed.
Rick McClain had no comments. He needs a set of plans. Mr. Pittman will provide
them. There are 30-foot easements. There is no load data yet. The contractor must call
for service; an engineer will meet him at site.
John South’s comment letter indicated “no comments”. His assumption is that the
erosion control and construction plans underlying the site plan will be completed ahead
of time. Then this project will be undertaken. The first contractor will be responsible for
the erosion control for the overall development. If all the work is to be done at the same
time, then that contractor is responsible for erosion control. The two lots are basically a
plan unto themselves. The project must be built according to the underlying erosion
control plan and the Children’s World plan.
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Gary Hoyt needs another set of plans. The building will not be sprinkled. Mr. Hoyt
commented the State of Indiana might require it. He also asked for a Knox box. Darren
Pittman forwarded that request to their architect. Mr. Hoyt will review the plans and
write another letter.
Laurence Lillig said the northwest corner monument must be concrete. The street is
Hazel Dell Parkway not “road”. A phone number is needed for Aramark and an address
and phone number for the surveyor. If they are the same as Falcon, then that should
suffice. Sheet A. 4.1 provides architecture information. Mr. Lillig suggested something
needs to be done to areas of the roof, perhaps dormers, to break up expanses. The
alphabet letters and numbers on the façade must be eliminated. These would be
considered signs and could be confused as the address by emergency services. Scott
Brewer had discussed landscape plans. Mr. Pittman believes he is satisfied. The trees
should not be disturbed.
Craig Parks asked if Children’s World is a franchise. Usage information is needed to
help determine fees. The architect had a proposed breakdown for water usage from
another building. Mr. Parks said this would be helpful. City Ordinance has no
information for childcare operations. Darren Pittman said they had no other comparison.
Laurence Lillig stated the Plan Commission will want to see material samples. The
Board of Zoning Appeals also needs samples to help illustrate projects being considered.
Jeff Kendall wants rooms to be designed allowing baby cribs to be rolled out of the
building.
Scott Brewer arrived at 10:35.
Newark, lots 9-11—Stewart Place (SP; DP/ADLS)
The site is located at 841 South Range Line Road. The site is zoned B-7/business. Filed
by James J. Nelson of Nelson & Frankenberger for Thompson Thrift Development.
Attorney Jim Nelson presented the case and introduced Paul Thrift, O.J. Stalker, and Jim
Peck. Thompson Thrift Development is planning a new project to be called Stewart
Place. This 13,000 square foot development will provide space for retail, service, and
office uses. There will be two buildings. One will be approximately 9,000 square feet
and the other 4,000 square feet in size. The real estate consists of three lots—lots 9, 10,
and 11. They will be combined into a single lot on South Range Line Road. Mr. Nelson
displayed an architectural rendering of the proposal. It will have clock towers at the
north and south ends of the property. The architectural design was specifically for this
parcel. Les Olds, of CSO Architects, gave his opinion of architectural standards that
would be used when an ordinance is adopted for an overlay along Range Line Road.
These standards guided the project. The site plan rendering was shown. There will be a
single entrance from Range Line Road. Sherwin Williams will be the primary tenant.
This will be their relocation site. The parcel is zoned B-7 and the landscape plan is
consistent with requirements of that zoning. Comments have been received from the City
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Engineer’s office. The petitioner will proceed with the sewer and water availability and
the application for the curb cut.
Steve Cash stated the parcel is located within the watershed of the J. W. Hawkins County
Regulated Drain. An outlet permit will be required from the petitioner. The actual on-
site characteristics fall under the jurisdiction of City Engineer’s Department.
Craig Parks wrote a letter. The street lights are not on the Holey Moley system. It is
important that the City be advised when digging is planned. They will help locate the
utilities. The location of the new improvements and new right of way is needed. There
will be no pavement cuts for utility hook ups. Jim Peck stated there are three laterals to
be utilized. Mr. Parks asked that more curb cut detail be provided. Mr. Peck agreed and
will do a depressed curb cut. Craig Parks requested they cut off the “chair back”.
John Lester wants the sidewalk to be maintained. He requested a copy of the site
drawing to show sidewalk and curb cut activity.
Chuck Shupperd stated there is gas on Range Line Road. He gave his business card to
the presenters. He needs to determine the size of meter for each building.
Jeff Kendall had no issues. He will help with any submittal questions for the permit.
Rick McClain just received the plans. It does not seem that easements will be required.
Paul Thrift said that demolition would take place in late December or early January. Mr.
McClain asked the petitioner to call for a service request.
John South sent a letter. There is a low spot on the north property line that would benefit
from a yard inlet. Jim Peck contemplated a four-inch PVC with a French drain and tying
it into their storm sewer. There are no gutters on the north end of the building. Only the
water itself will hit there. This is just a low spot.
Gary Hoyt suggested the petitioners contact the fire department for a Knox box
application.
Scott Brewer has not written a letter. He noticed there are some differences on the
rendering and the plan he received. The plan he received is correct. There will only be
an island, not a planting strip. There will be no trees along the street. Jim Peck stated the
boundary line is the previous right of way. The other line behind it is the current right of
way. There will not be any landscaping, but there will be a brick knee wall. Something
is needed to screen the headlights as cars enter. They want to comply with the future
overlay. Mr. Stalker will incorporate the knee wall to allow this project to transfer and
move smoothly from the old Ordinance and into the new Ordinance. Scott Brewer asked
if Thompson Thrift has objections to street trees in the right of way. O. J. Stalker thinks
there is not enough room between the sidewalk and the street. Perhaps planting boxes
could be used as shown in the rendering. Mr. Thrift stated they were following Les Olds’
plan that may include future widening of the sidewalks. Scott Brewer will suggest ideas.
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Paul Thrift said his plans simply stopped at the property line. They wanted to stay out of
the right of way. Jim Nelson said a site was needed for the Sherwin Williams store as
soon as possible. He suggested a meeting with Jim Peck when comments are ready. Mr.
Brewer commented that snow drift maple and Austrian pines are prone to disease. He
would like to suggest alternatives. Scott Brewer also needs details on tree preservation
and construction fencing. A line of construction limits needs to be indicated on the plans.
Laurence Lillig understands these are elevations for only building 1. Building 2 will not
to come in for review until the Range Line Plan is in place. Or, the petitioner will seek a
variance. The photo metric plan shows light intensity that is too high at the rear lot line.
It must be dropped down to 0.1 foot candles. Paul Thrift responded there is no light
standard on the property line. Paul Thrift remarked it is a PSI pole. Laurence Lillig said
the light intensity at the Range Line Road right of way should be 0.3 foot candles. Craig
Parks stated the street lights are installed. They will exceed the intensity. This is
allowed.
Jim Nelson commented that their entire parking area would be curved. Laurence Lillig
asked if the Vaughn Wamsley parking lot could tie into their lot. Mr. Stalker responded
that was probably not an option. The parking lots do not meet. Craig Parks requested
more curb cut detail. Mr. Lillig would like circulation between the two sites but does not
think it is physically possible to accomplish this because the Wamsley property is higher.
Laurence Lillig will write a letter about the replat. He thinks the project generally looks
good. A docket number will be assigned.
Mayflower Park Sewer and Water Extension (Construction Plans)
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The site is located west of West 99 Street and Michigan Road. The site is zoned I-
1/indstrial. Filed by Greg Snelling of CSO Engineers.
The project was explained by Greg Snelling. Jamie Browning, Browning Investments,
was also in attendance. This is a small project of extending a sanitary sewer and water
main within Mayflower Park. Mr. Snelling gave the location. Some comment letters
were received.
Steve Cash stated this project does not affect county drains.
John Lester had no comments,
Chuck Shupperd did not receive a set of plans but has quickly reviewed them here. There
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is gas service on the south side of 99 Street. A small meter has been set nearby. Mr.
Shupperd did not see any gas line on the plans. Greg Snelling did not think their work
would affect the gas. Prior to construction it will be marked. The relocation department
may be aware of it. This should not be a problem. Mr. Snelling added that one part of
these plans would change. There is a site under construction to the south. Instead of
crossing the ditch as shown in the plans, they will connect to the manhole recently built
for Kipp Brothers.
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John South thought coverage was shallow. Mr. Snelling agreed. He has spoken with
Clay Regional Waste. They want a three-foot minimum coverage. They will mound as
necessary. Future site development will be built up high enough to maintain the cover.
The petitioner will not cross the ditch.
Gary Hoyt had no comments.
Greg Snelling stated the water main would also be extended.
Scott Brewer did not get a set of plans. However, it does not appear there will much
disruption to the landscaping. He had no comments.
Laurence Lillig had no comments.
Greg Snelling believes it will be necessary to get permits from the State, Indianapolis
Water Company, and Clay Regional Waste. Mr. Lillig said no Plan Commission
approval was required.
The meeting adjourned at 11:20 a.m.
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