HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes SpecStdy 09-02-03
City of Carmel
CARMEL/CLAY PLAN COMMISSION
SPECIAL STUDIES COMMITTEE
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 2, 2003
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Special Study Committee met at 7:00 PM on September 2, 2003
in the Caucus Rooms of City Hall, Carmel, Indiana.
Members present: Jerry Chomanczuk; Leo Dierckman; Dan Dutcher; Ron Houck; Nick Kestner; Dianna
Knoll; Wayne Wilson, thereby establishing a quorum.
Jon Dobosiewicz attended the meeting on behalf of the Department of Community Services.
The Special Studies Committee met to consider the following items:
ADD-ON ITEM:
Docket No. 94-03 DP/ADLS
Three Meridian Plaza - First Indiana Bank (Amended Development Plan)
The applicant seeks approval to construct a drive-thru banking facility. The site is located at 10333
North Meridian Street. The site is zoned B-5 Business and is within the US 31 Overlay Zone.
Filed by Steven B. Granner of Bose McKinney & Evans for First Indiana Bank.
Steve Granner, Land Use Consultant for Bose, McKinney & Evans appeared before the Committee
representing the applicant. Lori North, architect of record, was also in attendance.
At its meeting on August 19, 2003, the full Commission returned this item to the Committee with
right of final approval. The issues were the traffic circulation of the site, the lighting, and the
location of the ATM.
Steve Granner said the ATM has been relocated from the building to the outside island and the
outside lane is exclusively for the ATM only. The elevations were revised and distributed to the
Committee. The Board of Zoning Appeals granted approval to enclose the bottom of the directional
sign. The revised, overall site plan shows the location of the directional sign as being in the median
for the access off Pennsylvania Street.
Ron Houck asked about signage for the ATM—there is none shown.
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Lori North, Architect of Record, addressed the Committee saying the tubes for the drive-thru are
shown on the north elevation. The tubes will go up through the ceiling to the teller’s station, and
this will serve the middle drive-thru lane. The ATM lane will probably have a sign specifying “ATM
Only,” and some sort of light designation.
Jon Dobosiewiz reported that the petitioner would be allowed an open/closed sign, but nothing is
shown. Jon requested cut sheets for the lighting and a revised elevation. Depending upon all other
items being addressed, Jon suggested the Committee approve the Development Plan with ADLS
final approval resting with the Department.
Docket No. 94-03 DP Amend/ADLS, First Indiana Bank,
Leo Dierckman moved for approval of
Department will issue final approval of the open/close signs forthe
with the caveat that the
ATM and drive-thru lanes
. This motion was seconded by Jerry Chomanczuk and APPROVED
7-0.
Note: Ron Houck asked that the colors be consistent.
1.Docket No. 53-03 ADLS Amend; Tom Wood Ford
Petitioner seeks amended Architectural Design, Lighting, Landscaping & Signage approval
for one wall and three ground signs. The site is located at 3130 East 96th Street. The site is
zoned B-3/Business.
Filed by Tim Kinglespaugh of Sign Craft.
TABLED
2. Docket No. 107-03 ADLS Amend; (03070002);
Woodfield Subdivision - 2 Subdivision Sign Renovations
The petitioner seeks Amended Architectural Design, Exterior Lighting, Landscaping & Signage
approval for two subdivision signs. The sites are located at the corner of Gray Rd./Woodfield Dr.
and Gray Rd./146th St. The site is zoned S-1/Residence.
for the Woodfield HOA
Filed by Cesare Turrin
TABLED
3. Docket No. 141-02 ADLS Amend; Fountains Plaza – 500 East Carmel Drive
Petitioner seeks amended Architectural Design, Lighting, Landscaping & Signage approval
to install a new ground sign, landscaping islands and lighting standards. The site is located
at 500 East Carmel Drive. The site is zoned B-8 Business.
Filed by Brad Barns of Barns Investment Company.
Brad Barnes of Barnes Investment Company appeared before the Committee representing the
applicant. The existing pole sign is being replaced with a ground sign to match the existing brown
brick on the building. The sign will have individual brass letters, non-illuminated. The planting
islands will be moved to grade level. Also, the lighting standards will be replaced and up-graded,
utilizing the same locations. The fixtures will be the same as those utilized in the Merchants Square.
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Jerry Chomanczuk suggested the monument sign be placed parallel to Carmel Drive for greater
visibility.
Dave Barnes responded that since the sign is recessed, it works better in a perpendicular direction
and there is no plan to change that.
Docket No. 141-02 ADLS Amend, Fountains Plaza, 500 East
Ron Houck moved for approval of
Carmel DriveAPPROVED
, seconded by Leo Dierckman and 7-0.
4. Docket No. 108-03 ADLS Amend; (03070005);
Wilson Office Complex, Bldg B – (Signage Only)
The petitioner seeks Amended Architectural Design, Exterior Lighting, Landscaping &
Signage approval for a building remodel. The site is located at 969 Keystone Way. The site
is zoned B8/431 Overlay.
Filed by Steve Wilson for W & W Properties, LLC.
Steve Wilson appeared before the Committee on behalf of W&W Properties, LLC. The proposed
sign is 20 feet square, located on the building. The signs are non-illuminated, burgundy letters,
individual, standout acrylic (plastic) letters with a light background to match the buildings. The
other two buildings were built for retail in the early 70’s. Most of the signs are above the door, but
some are beside the door. The proposal is to make the signs consistent—wooden, same burgundy
color.
Steve Wilson agreed with the Committee that the signage should be uniform. As each tenant space
is vacated, the sign will be changed to conform to the overall signage.
The Committee commented they would rather have the signage consistent now. Jon Dobosiewicz
said the Department is not able to locate permits for the existing signs; Mr. Wilson cannot produce
permits either.
Leo Dierckman suggested giving Mr. Wilson a timeline for the complex to conform, and this was
discussed.
Wilson Office Complex, Docket No.
Ron Houck moved for approval of the proposed sign(s) for
108-03 ADLS Amend, subject to
the remaining tenant signage being brought into total compliance
6 months from this dateAPPROVED
within . The motion was seconded by Leo Dierckman and
7-0.
5. Docket No. 110-03 DP Amend/ADLS; (03070007);
West Carmel Center, Block B, Lot 1 - Union Federal Bank of Indianapolis
The applicant seeks Development Plan Amendment and Architectural Design, Lighting,
Landscaping & Signage approval to construct a financial institution. The site is located on
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the southeast corner of Commerce Drive and West 106 Street. The site is zoned
B-5/Business and is subject to the US 421 Overlay requirements.
Filed by E. Davis Coots of Coots, Henke & Wheeler, PC.
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Dave Coots, attorney with Coots, Henkey & Wheeler appeared before the Committee representing
the applicant. Also in attendance: Mike Newbold and Sue McMillan with Union Federal Bank;
Boyd Zoccola and Sandy Griffith, Hokanson Properties, Diana Brenner of Brenner Designs,
architects; Nela Sapia with Mid-States Engineering; and Meg Storrow, Landscape Architect.
Frank Swiss, owner of the entire parcel from which Union Federal is acquiring a portion, also
attended the Committee meeting. Mr. Swiss obtained original Development Plan approval. The
proposed landscape plan and the monument sign on the corner of this parcel have prompted
questions. The corner sign currently exists in the form of a brick structure with an EFIS
background. The sign permit is currently pending before the DOCS for the identification of the
center, Carmel Center West. The sign contains no other tenant signage. The identification sign was
approved as a part of the original development plan.
The landscape plan was approved at the time of original development plan approval. Phase I
building exists on this tract; the roof material is the same as that on the proposed bank building. The
Development Plan is being amended to provide an entry to the proposed building off Commerce
Drive and into the Union Federal site. The landscape installed is consistent with the approved plan
for Phase I. Scott Brewer, City Urban Forester, has communicated with Meg Storrow regarding the
landscape plan.
There was an issue at public hearing in terms of locating the drive-thru to the south side of the
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building to screen total visibility from 106 Street. The property is under the 421 Overlay and the
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landscaping along 106 Street screens the drive-thru in its entirety. The drive-thru lane cannot be
moved to the south due to the Ordinance requirement of a minimum of 5 spaces per teller per
drive-thru for stacking space for cars. Also, the third building on the site to the east will provide
some screening of the angle.
Diana Brenner, architect, stated that a number of studies had been done and given the rectangular
nature of the site, all of the stacking and the by-pass lane could not be fit on this particular site. The
site is narrow going south, and the building cannot be turned due to the constraints of the Overlay.
Most of the cars will be hidden from view due to the landscaping.
Ron Houck questioned the minimum planting and diameter at breast height (“dbh.”) The rendering
shows the landscaping at 2 years out with 2 ½ inch caliper on shade trees. Jon Dobosiewicz said
he would check the “dbh;” the client will continue working with Scott Brewer.
Diana Brenner, architect, explained the revisions. The color has been changed to cast stone; the
sandstone has been eliminated. Split-face block, brick, EFIS and stone are now being used,
however, there is much less EFIS and more brick now incorporated into the design; Ms. Brenner
would like to stay with the porcelain stone because it looks more natural. The windows are now
more traditional; detail has been added in the form of mullions to break up the spanse of the large
windows. The building is more Georgian and Federal style. This is a proto-type building for Union
Federal. There is red brick base wainscot; the sconces will be illuminated at the corners.
Leo Dierckman was in favor of the split-face on the base; Jerry Chomanczuk also liked the
combination of materials and colors and windows. This building is a welcome change of pace.
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The ATM is flush-mounted, and has no signage.
Jon Dobosiewicz requested additional screening for the dumpster area. The petitioner offered to
plant additional trees, pursuant to the landowner’s approval. Meg Storrow said there would be
additional landscaping, species and sizes submitted.
Nick Kestner referred to the renderings and was reluctant to approve this item because of the
landscaping. Mr. Kestner said he has yet to see thorough screening on projects because of the time
gap between planting of materials and mature growth.
Meg Storrow responded that the rendering is fairly representative. However, Spruce is more dense
than Pine and the completed project will be very similar to the rendering. Ms. Storrow said they
would consider going to an 8 to 10-foot Pine in order to maximize the initial screening.
Docket No. 110-03 DP Amend/ADLS, Union
Wayne Wilson moved to recommend approval of
Federal Bank of Indianapolis
, to the full Commission with the caveat of additional landscaping.
Approved
The motion was seconded by Leo Dierckman and 7-0.
6. Docket No. 111-03 ADLS; (03070009);
Meridian Technology Center, AmeriCenters - Carmel
The applicant seeks Architectural Design, Lighting, Landscaping & Signage approval to
construct an office building. The site is located at the southeast corner of College Avenue
and Pennsylvania Street. The site is zoned B-2/Business.
Filed by Blair D. Carmosino of Duke Construction LP.
NOTE:
Jerry Chomanczuk and Leo Dierckman recused themselves from all discussion and voting,
and were not present at the time this item was heard.
Blair Carmosino of Duke Construction appeared before the Committee representing the
petitioner. Ken Davis with Blaine Group; Lori Norris, Landscape Architect; and Greg Snelling,
CSO Architects were also present.
Ken Davis displayed sample pre-cast materials as well as brick samples. The glass has a blue-tint
character and blends well with the pre-cast material. The pre-cast material was selected because of
less maintenance and a better, over-all look. The mechanical equipment will be hidden—nothing
visible; this is articulated in the elevation information in the booklets.
There is no final word yet from Scott Brewer regarding the landscape plan.
As for signage, there is one ground sign on each frontage, ground-lit. The only sign on the building
is the address. The light fixtures are the same as on the property to the south.
Nick Kestner had an issue with the path. A five-foot concrete path is very seldom used because it
is not wide enough. A 10-foot asphalt path would be used –asphalt is preferred by the runners and
walkers.
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Blair Carmosino responded that the existing right-of-way on Pennsylvania is such that the walkway
wants to be on the right-of-way or a foot within the right-of-way. A 10-foot path has been
requested—right now, the petitioner is proposing a 5-foot asphalt path, to be situated within the
existing right-of-way. It was determined that the Thoroughfare Plan requires an additional five feet
of right-of-way to be dedicated in the future for Pennsylvania Street, when and if it is approved.
When the improvements are made, the additional five feet would be added at that time. OR the
petitioner would be happy to take the walk and locate it within the existing right-of-way so that all
10 feet could be located in the right-of-way. The petitioner has set this up for the eventual,
long-term location of the path, and is constructing half of it within the right-of-way that is in place
today.
College Avenue already has all of the right-of-way per the Thoroughfare Plan. On College, the
median was built and pushed the pavement section out to such a point that a typical section with
curb/gutter/greenspace could not be fit. The petitioner is proposing that from the curb back to the
right-of-way, essentially about 5-feet all along, the asphalt would occur from the top of the curb
back to the right-of-way.
Jon Dobosiewicz commented that the additional problem on College is that it flares to the left and
the right-of-way is only 88 feet. This is a flaw in the City Thoroughfare Plan. When the Ordinance
was changed to require a 10-foot asphalt path, the Thoroughfare Plan was not modified to reflect
the necessity of the intersection for additional right-of-way to fit the path within the allowable
right-of-way. As noted in the Department Report, the Staff is supporting the request for the 5-foot
concrete walk. There are a couple of options along Pennsylvania. Blair is suggesting they keep the
asphalt path within the existing right-of-way; this may be able to be accomplished, but then there
would be the situation that the path would be against the backside of the curb and that is not good
from an aesthetic standpoint.
The Department is recommending that the petitioner dedicate the additional right-of-way and keep
all 10 feet within the right-of-way, commensurate with the Thoroughfare Plan. The lever we do not
have is that this property is zoned B-2 and not within the Overlay—we do not have Development
Plan approval. Under Development Plan approval, the Department has the lever of requirements for
right-of-way dedication. Here, the development standard is a 10-foot path. What Blair is saying is
“If you want us to build a 10-foot path and squeeze it in against the street, then we will build 5 feet
today and the balance at the time Pennsylvania roadway is improved.
Nick Kestner said he was not as concerned along College as he was with Pennsylvania. Jon
Dobosiewicz said the Department recommended 5-feet concrete on College. It is not preferable to
have 5 feet concrete, then next to it, a variation where 5 feet of asphalt would subside and would
be unrelated to the curb. The proposal for College is asphalt along College, but it is 5 feet, not 10.
Jon Dobosiewicz asked the petitioner to grant the City a public pedestrian access easement and not
grant the right-of-way along Pennsylvania; then build a 10-foot asphalt path. If the issue is the
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dedication of additional real estate, the path could be placed in the same location and just grant a
public pedestrian easement for the 10-foot asphalt path along Pennsylvania. This would leave the
petitioner with the same amount of real estate.
Blair Carmosino responded that the only concern with the easement is the liability issue. There
would be public improvement on private property—maybe the easement document would take care
of that. What we have here is someone willing to build the 10-foot path, but all within the
right-of-way.
Ron Houck commented that if this is a legal issue, perhaps John Molitor could be instrumental in
preparing language acceptable to all parties.
The petitioner stated a willingness to construct an 8-foot, asphalt path on Pennsylvania
Street—language to be crafted by John Molitor in an appropriate document. (No right-of-way is
available on College Avenue.)
Jon Dobosiewicz had further comments on behalf of the Department. The white background on the
ground sign should be the same color as the limestone cap—off-white. Also, the dumpster
enclosure doors are blue! The preference is for the color to match the building—not highlight the
dumpster.
Docket No. 111-03 ADLS, Meridian Technology Center
Ron Houck moved for approval of ,
AmeriCenters, Carmelwith changes as noted:
, 1) The dumpster door color is to match the
building. 2) The background of ground sign is to match limestone in the building. 3) Complete
resolution of the easement along Pennsylvania to accommodate a 10-foot asphalt path, language to
APPROVED
be framed by John Molitor. The motion was seconded by Dan Dutcher and 5 in
favor, 0 opposed, 2 recused. (Jerry Chomanczuk and Leo Dierckman)
7. Docket No. 112-03 ADLS; (03070014);
Merchants' Square - Chipotle Mexican Grill
The applicant seeks approval to construct a restaurant. The site is located at 1422 Keystone
Way. The site is zoned B-8/Business and is located within the SR 431 Overlay Zone.
Filed by Jason Stults of Glavan-Feher Architects.
Jason Stults of Glavan-Feher Architects appeared before the Committee representing the applicant.
Revised, color elevations were distributed to the Committee members. Changes were made in
materials to the walk-in cooler—now shown as a brick enclosure rather than galvanized metal as
previously shown. The dumpster enclosure has also been revised to brick material.
The mechanical equipment is screened from view. Mr. Stults distributed color renderings of
existing Chipotle Restaurants and displayed color and fabric samples to be used for the patio
umbrellas.
Dianna Knoll was very much in favor of the chili pepper shown on some of the renderings.
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Ron Houck had comments regarding the lighting. The petitioner committed to use a sconce similar
to one shown this evening and reverse it so the bulbs are not visible.
Dan Dutcher was in favor of the glass block for accent at the front door/entry area but was not in
favor of the “garage/service door” look.
Nick Kestner said he had no problem with the rust metal appearance, however, the more aluminum,
the cheaper the look.
The window framing is galvanized aluminum and the committee would like LESS galvanized,
maybe even bronze. Collectively, the Committee said “Absolutely Not” to the red color of “shark
fin” shown—in fact, the shark fin draws attention to something that is non-existent.
Jerry Chomanczuk commented that this is a very unique design, but when put in the proximity of the
other buildings such as Carrabba’s, MCL Cafeteria, etc., it is out of place.
Jon Dobosiewicz recommended elevating the façade wall. There is one small area of the mechanical
equipment that is exposed (the exhaust fan.) The petitioner will increase the height of the façade
wall to correct.
The petitioner will revise the drawings, change some materials, and consult with Jon Dobosiewicz
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of the Department. The petitioner will return to the Committee on October 7 with revisions in
st
preparation for return to full Commission on October 21 for final vote.
8. Docket No. 128-03 ADLS Amend; (03080027); CARMAX Auto Superstore
The petitioner seeks Amended Architectural Design, Exterior Lighting, Landscaping &
Signage approval for a wall surrounding portions of their auto sales facility. The site is
located at 9750 Gray Road. The site is zoned B-3/Business.
Filed by Earl Smith of Pieper O'Brien Her Architects.
Ned Sparkman of RDI appeared before the Commission representing CarMax. The current request
is for a reduction in the site wall around a portion of the perimeter to 6 feet. The materials of the
wall will not change. The spacing of the pilaster and the landscaping are the same. The dumpster
enclosure is to remain at 8 feet in height. The only request is to lower the height of the wall to 6
feet—everything else remains the same. This is a cost-saving measure only and is being done on all
of the new stores.
The initial request for 8 feet was standard and proto-typical height at that time. The landscape
heavily screens the facility.
Jon Dobosiewicz commented that lowering the wall would get away from the “fortress” look.
Docket No. 128-03 ADLS Amend, Carmax Auto
Jerry Chomanczuk moved to approve
Superstore,APPROVED
seconded by Dan Dutcher and 7-0.
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10. Docket No. 162-02 OA; 163-02 CPA
Amendment to the Carmel/Clay Zoning Ordinance - Agricultural District
Amendment to the Carmel/Clay Comprehensive Plan - Agricultural District
The petitioner seeks to add a new zoning district to the Zoning Ordinance.
Filed by the Department of Community Services.
Jon Dobosiewicz appeared before the Committee on behalf of the Department, applicant in the
above matter. This document is a revision of the Ordinance put together by the Department and
sent out with the Department report. This document revises the format into one that is usual and
customary and standard.
Jon further commented that if Statute is amended at the State level, it will allow Carmel to have the
same legislation as other communities, and when Carmel annexes property zoned agriculturally,
their taxes will not change until they decide to do that themselves. The other opportunity is for the
person who owns 5 acres and perhaps a mission farm or horse farm—they would have the
opportunity to rezone to this classification and perhaps incur a tax saving that would offset their
annexation into the City.
Jon explained that if someone were to rezone to this District, it would leave equity on the table, but
likewise, there would be a tax saving. Llama farms would not qualify.
Docket Nos.
Leo Dierckman moved to make a positive recommendation to the full Commission of
162-02 OA, and 163-02 CPA, Agricultural DistrictZoning Amendment andComprehensive
,
Plan Amendment
to the full Commission, seconded by Wayne Wilson and Approved 6 in favor,
1 opposed (Nick Kestner.)
(TABLED INDEFINITLY)
10. Docket No. 150-02b OA;
Amendments to the Carmel/Clay Zoning Ordinance – Patch #4
The petitioner seeks to add new provisions to and make several corrective amendments to
the Zoning Ordinance.
Filed by the Department of Community Services.
There being no further business to come before the Committee, the meeting was adjourned at 9:45
P.M.
______________________________
Dianna Knoll, Chairperson
______________________________
Ramona Hancock, Secretary
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