HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes SpecStdy 11-06-03
City of Carmel
CARMEL/CLAY PLAN COMMISSION
SPECIAL STUDIES COMMITTEE
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 6, 2003
MINUTES
The Special Study Committee met at 7:00 PM, November 6, 2003, in the Caucus Rooms of City Hall.
Members present: Jerry Chomanczuk; Leo Dierckman; Ron Houck; Nick Kestner; Dianna Knoll; Wayne
Wilson.
DOCS Staff in attendance: Angie Butler; Mike Hollibaugh, Director.
The following items were considered:
1. Docket No. 138-03 DP/ADLS (#03090006)
West Carmel Center, Block C – Bank One
The applicant seeks to construct a Bank One building. The site is located at northwest
Carwinion Way and Commerce Dr. The site is zoned part B-3 Business, and is within the
US 421 Overlay Zone.
Filed by Eric Matson of CSO Architects for 421 Realty.
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Les Olds, CSO Architects, 280 East 96 Street, and Eric Matson appeared before the Committee
representing the petitioner:
The petitioner is requesting additional signage on the Bank One branch bank building located
Carwinion Way and Commerce Drive, within the US 421 Overlay Zone. One sign is allowed on
Michigan Road; the Bank is requesting additional signage on the rear of the building, facing east,
AND a ground sign on 421.
The Bank purchases signage for ATM machines in quantities of 50 to 100 and they are all the same.
The design is partially gray, partially blue, with the Bank One sign at the top and is “built into the
package” at purchase. Consideration is being requested for the additional signage on the ATM.
The logo on the ATM is under three (3) square feet and falls under the classification of identification
and is allowed under the Ordinance.
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Pictures of the ATM unit were distributed. The wall lights are non-directional fixtures with
non-glare on the side of the door and north side.
Commmittee Comments:
Jerry Chomanczuk did not like the color of brick. Mr. Olds reported that the color shown on the
rendering is computer-generated and not a true color. The ATM is not enclosed in brick—it is
two-tone metal, self-contained.
The Committee did not like the metal appearance of the ATM and wanted to avoid the
“refrigerator” look for an ATM. The unit is 54 inches tall, 42 inches wide.
Nick Kestner encouraged the petitioner to landscape the islands to off set the “coldness” of the
ATM machine.
Wayne Wilson thought the number of drive-thru lanes were excessive and should be reviewed.
Wayne referred the petitioner to the look of the ATM on “The Forum” facility at Merchants Pointe
as a standard the Committee would like to see.
Regarding the signage---according to Les Olds, the petitioner is willing to give up the ground sign
in exchange for a sign on the front and back of the building, deemed acceptable to the Committee.
Nick Kestner asked about the sidewalk/path. The petitioner committed to installing an 8-foot,
multi-use asphalt path.
Lighting—the wall lighting as shown is acceptable to the Committee.
Open issue: The ATM machine.
The Committee agreed that the base would be stone/masonry—same color as the wall. The
Committee was not in favor of the blue at the top of the ATM and requested the removal of the “1”
above the ATM—facing material would be “in-brick.”
Note:
The petitioner will return to Committee in December with revised drawings of the ATM
based on Committee comments.
Wayne Wilson made a formal motion to forward Docket No. 138-03 DP (only) for Bank One to the
full Commission with a positive recommendation, seconded by Ron Houck and Approved 6-0.
Note:
The motion excludes the ATM machine, and the Committee will have full authority to
approve the ADLS portion.
At this time, Docket No. 156-03 ADLS Amend, AutoZone, (item 13) was heard out of
sequence.
Note: Items 2 and 3 for St. Christopher’s Episcopal Church were heard together.
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2. Docket No. 140-03 Z (#03090015);
St. Christopher's Episcopal Church - Rezone
The applicant seeks to rezone a part of their property from S-2/Residence within the US 31
Overlay to OM/SU-Old Meridian/Special Use Zone.
The site is located at 1440 W Main Street.
Filed by Tim Fleck on behalf of St. Christopher's Episcopal Church.
3. Docket No. 147-03 ADLS (#03090025); St. Christopher's Episcopal Church
The applicant seeks to construct a worship center building and expand their current
facilities. The site is located at 1402 W Main Street. The site is zoned OM/SU - Old
Meridian/Special Use.
Filed by Tim Fleck for St. Christopher's Episcopal Church.
Dave Stewart of Stewart & Stewart, attorneys, Range Line Road, Carmel appeared before the
Committee representing the applicant. Tim Fleck, St. Christopher’s Church, was also in attendance.
Large landscape plans showing greater detail were provided with the information packets as well as
color elevations. A replica of the southeast corner (part of the rezone) was shown. The
construction will be in three phases. The current structure houses the sanctuary; phase I is the
education wing; phase II does house a sanctuary, and once phase II is completed, it would be
connected. Currently, the intention is to demolish the existing church, unless there is a buyer. The
long-range plan is to sell it for commercial development. The third phase is contingent upon
additional land being provided. Color samples of the stone were displayed together with a photo
showing the color and texture. The proposed stone will match the existing structure.
There will be no floodlighting. A wall pack is designed for use at the dark corner where the worship
center and education wing meet. The Committee was not in favor of the use of wall pack lighting,
and the petitioner agreed to eliminate its use.
Extension of the classrooms or possibly a school facility has not yet been designed.
The Department requested a revised legal description after the rezone in its entirety.
Scott Brewer, Urban Forester, reviewed the landscape plan—his only comment had to do with the
elimination of the Red Maples along the street and replacing with an acceptable species. The
petitioner will meet with Scott Brewer for alternate selection of species.
Dianna Knoll referred to the dedication of 90 feet of right-of-way along Main Street for future
Grand Boulevard. Dave Stewart responded that after the entire parcel is rezoned, a legal
description will be furnished that will reflect the 90-foot dedication of right-of-way.
In response to Leo Dierckman’s questions, Tim Fleck said the roofing materials on the first two
phases are dimensional asphalt shingles.
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Jerry Chomanczuk commented that the attachment of the two buildings to the main structure, the
worship facility, detracts from the main church. Tim Fleck explained that the layout should convey
a town square/small village atmosphere.
positive recommendationDocket No
Wayne Wilson moved for a to the full Commission on .
140-03 Z St. Christopher’s Episcopal Church Rezone
, seconded by Leo Dierckman and
Approved 6-0.
Docket No. 147-03 ADLS, St. Christopher’s Episcopal
Wayne Wilson moved for approval of
Church,
conditioned upon the elimination of wall pack lighting; seconded by Ron Houck and
APPROVED
6-0.
4. Docket No. 145-03 ADLS Amend (#03090023): Circuit City
The applicant seeks an amendment to construct a retail building in Clay Terrace. The site is
located at the 14300 Block Clay Terrace Blvd. The site is zoned PUD - Planned Unit
Development.
Filed by David Chapin of Taylor Scott Architects.
Paul (last name??) with Circuit City, Joe Downs of Lauth Property Group, and Fred Simmons of
Simmons & Associates, architects, appeared before the Committee representing the applicant.
Revisions were made to the proposal as a result of comments from Committee members on October
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7 and from the Department. The Spanoglass panels have been eliminated in exchange for display
windows, 2 feet deep, with graphics on the back face of the display window. The display windows
are more for pedestrian scale and to break up the facade.
Nick Kestner would prefer the display windows change frequently, especially from a maintenance
standpoint, i.e. fading colors and images.
The signs are integrated into the building and building materials. The petitioner has met with Jon
Dobosiewicz—the red background is not a bright background and is the same brick as the building;
there is veneer behind the sign. Mullions match the Spanoglass and are now integrated with the
storefront.
Jerry Chomanczuk referred to item 5 of the Department report. Do the colors and the brick/trim
blend with DSW or clash? Fred Simmons said the materials are consistent. The gray, black and
white awnings on the west elevation complement. The EFIS will match the stone color.
The elevation cornice wraps around the back-side. Type 5 brick is red, with raised letters.
The petitioner will be appearing before the BZA for an additional, third sign.
The trash compactor was an oversight and does not show in the drawings.
Docket No. 158-03 ADLS Amend, Clay Terrace, Bldg. B-19,
Ron Houck moved for approval of
DSW.
Ron Houck then amended his motion to provide for EFIS to the top of the store front,
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as amended
approximately 14 feet. Jerry Chomanczuk seconded the motion . The motion was
APPROVED
6-0.
5. Docket No. 155-03 ADLS Amend (#03100006): Midwest ISO
The applicant seeks approval of changes to the approved site development plan, including
landscaping and drive layouts. The site is located at 701 City Center Drive. The site is zoned
M-3/Manufacturing..
Filed by Greg Rasmussen of TLF Consulting Engineers for Midwest Independent
Transmission System Operation, Inc.
Greg Rasmussen, TerHorst, Lamson & Fisk, and Rachel Morgan of REI appeared before the
Committee representing the applicant.
MISO is concerned with security around the property and would like to get rid of the drop-off area
at the front of the building. The drop-off area has now been pulled away from the building and a
limestone block, rough-cut wall that is 30 inches tall is being provided with landscape plantings to
the front. The sides will have berming behind the wall for reinforcement. The landscape plan meets
the Carmel Landscape Ordinance. The perimeter walls around bu8ilding are as shown in the
cross-section. All landscape concerns have been addressed—a different species of crabapple has
been substituted and approved by Scott Brewer. There are no drainage issues with the berm.
Docket No. 155-03 ADLS Amend, Midwest ISO,
Ron Houck moved for approval of as
APPROVED
presented, seconded by Wayne Wilson and 6-0.
6.Docket No. 157-03 ADLS Amend (#03100009): Westwood Estates Entry Sign
The applicant seeks an approval of revised subdivision sign. The site is located southeast
of 141st St and Towne Rd. The site is zoned S-1/Residence- Estate.
Filed by Tom Raymond of Justus Homes, Inc.
No Show
7.Docket No. 158-03 ADLS Amend (#03100010): Clay Terrace, Bldg B-19, DSW
The applicant seeks an approval of a retail building.
The site is located at 14477 Clay Terrace Blvd., and the site is zoned PUD/Planned Unit
Development.
Filed by Frederick Simmons of Simmons & Associates.
Fred Simmons of Simmons & Associates, Joe Downs of The Lauth Group, and ???? of DSW
appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. The brick shown matches the Circuit
City exterior—the stone and EFIS will also match—light buff. The EFIS cornice above the
windows will match the stone color.
The window mullions only occur at the projections—projections have been raised 3 feet to
accommodate the signage on the north and west elevations. The sign is 84 square feet (6’X14’) and
115 square feet per sign is allowed and the petitioner is entitled to two signs. The parapet was raised
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in order to make the sign appear in proportion. DSW proto-type, fabric awnings have been added
as well as vision glass proposed on the north and west elevations.
An up-dated, landscape plan was submitted along with the signage detail. There is clear glass on the
east elevation only facing US 31, and Spanoglass on the north and west elevations facing Clay
Terrace Boulevard. An area has been set aside for wall art on the west and east elevations. The
areas proposed for wall art will be on the east, between three panels. The wall art will be cohesive.
Docket No. 158-03 ADLS Amend, Clay Terrace, Bldg. B-19
Ron Houck moved for approval of ,
DSW, APPROVED
seconded by Jerry Chomanczuk and 6-0.
8.Docket No. 159-03 ADLS Amend (#03100011):
Meridian Technology Center, Americenters
The applicant seeks an approval to change building facade materials.
The site is located at 11805 Pennsylvania Street, and the site is zoned B-2/Business.
Filed by Blair Carmosino of Duke Construction, LP.
Note: Jerry Chomanczuk and Leo Dierckman were recused from discussion and voting.
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Blair Carmosnio, 600 E 96 Street, Indianapolis, appeared before the Committee representing The
Blaine Group on the Americenters project at 11805 Pennsylvania Street. Changes have been made
to the materials in elevation only. The change in materials is a cost-saving measure and still meets
the intent of the original materials. There was a slight error on the first elevation that showed white
columns rather than the brick that is being used.
Bruce Sanders with the pre-construction group and Keith Coen of the St. Louis office were also in
attendance.
The materials being substituted were displayed. The limestone caps are being changed to a
buff-color brick and EFIS replaces the simulated limestone all the way to the ground and will be
landscaped at the base. Since EFIS does not hold up in a high-traffic area such as the main entry,
the applicant will use heavy-duty EFIS at the bottom. The heavy-duty EFIS does provide some
durability, but this particular area will be an “area of maintenance” for the owner. Blaine Group is
the owner and operator of the facility.
Bruce Sanders commented that if durability becomes a factor in the EFIS at the bottom, they would
probably go to a pre-cast concrete that looks like EFIS and has the durability of concrete.
Nick Kestner did not like the look of the crème-colored brick under the windows that seems to
“cheapen” the look. Nick would rather see the pre-cast, or if brick is used, utilize a “field” brick.
Bruce Sanders commented they would use metal coping at the top, since water cannot sit on top of
the EFIS. The metal/aluminum would work and will match the EFIS.
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Department Comments: Concern with materials change, especially in the high traffic areas, because
of durability.
The petitioner committed to utilize a concrete base, the window sills will be in a field color brick, the
cornice will be metal to match the EFIS similar to crown molding—not a cap.
Nick Kestner moved for approval of Docket No. 159-03 ADLS Amend, conditioned upon the
commitments made by the petitioner, seconded by Ron Houck, and APPROVED 4 in favor, 0
opposed, Chomanczuk and Dierckman recused.
9. Docket No. 160-03 ADLS Amend (#03100012): Runyon Equipment Rental
The applicant seeks approval for signage. The site is located at 410 W Carmel Drive, and the
site is zoned I-1/Industrial.
Filed by Jim Leahy for Runyon Equipment Rental.
Jim Leahy, Career Sign Group, Keystone Crossing, Indianapolis appeared before the Committee
representing Gary Runyon of Runyon Equipment Rental (formerly Jack’s Tool Rental.) The
applicant is seeking approval for two signs: one being a wall sign, the other is a monument sign
located on Carmel Drive.
Both signs meet the Carmel Sign Ordinance in regard to size and allocation of changeable copy on
the signs. The Department is recommending approval of the signs, although there were some
concerns with the lighting.
The wall sign on the building is internally illuminated, neon channel letters that will show black
(day/night plex) in the day, white at night when illuminated. The monument sign is lighted by high
output, incandescent florescent lamps; vinyl copy on the ground sign.
Jerry Chomanczuk was concerned with three lines of changeable lettering that could evolve into a
marketing sign.
There was discussion among the Committee regarding changeable copy on previous signs such as
Ponderosa Restaurant and Walgreen’s.
Neither Ron Houck nor Leo Dierckman likes changeable copy signs, especially on Carmel Drive.
Mr. Leahy said the sign would be used not only for marketing/advertising but also community
events and civic messages, not just commercial.
The Committee offered no objection to the neon and like the logo.
Wayne Wilson commented that directly across the street is the Carmel Performing Arts
Center—they have the same type of sign and use it for community messages as well as business.
The City Council is in the process of doing away with the “banners” currently seen at traffic
intersections and is looking at using retail locations for community events.
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Mr. Leahy could not commit to a certain percentage of the sign to be used for community
events—approval would have to come from Mr. Runyon. Further, there is not adequate room on
the 30 square foot sign to advertise both a community event and retail information.
Docket No. 160-03 ADLS Amend, Runyon Equipment
Nick Kestner moved for approval of
Rental,
seconded by Wayne Wilson, APPROVED 5 in favor, 1 opposed (Houck).
10. Docket No. 161-03 ADLS Amend (#03100013): Wagner Reese & Crossen Building
The applicant seeks approval for architectural design. The site is located at 11939 N
Meridian St, and the site is zoned B-6/Business within the US 31 Overlay Zone.
Filed by Trevor Crossen for Wagner Reese & Crossen LLP.
Trevor Crossen of Wagner Reese & Crossen appeared before the Committee representing the
applicant. The petitioner purchased the building located at Old Meridian and US 31, within the 31
Overlay Zone, and will be using the site for office space. Approval is requested for a new roof,
removing the asphalt shingles, and installing a corrugated, metal roof the color of stone beige, and
then painting the entire exterior of the building in one color, and a lighter color under the soffit. The
brick will be painted. The petitioner is trying to “dress up” the property with paint/landscape, etc.
and make it look less residential with the metal roof. The shutters will be removed in an effort to
make the building look younger.
Leo Dierckman was not in favor of the corrugated roof and would prefer the petitioner consider a
roof such as the one previously approved at 1120 AAA way.
Jerry Chomanczuk also had issues with the corrugated, metal roof.
Nick Kestner moved for approval of Docket No. 161-03 ADLS Amend, conditioned upon final
approval of the Department of a 3-dimension shingle roof similar to the one seen at 1120 AAA Way,
(proposed paint color is OK) seconded by Wayne Wilson, APPROVED 6-0.
11. Docket No. 162-03 ADLS Amend (#03100014): Hamilton Crossing West, Building 3
The applicant seeks approval for signage. The site is located at 12800 N Meridian St, and the
site is zoned B-2/Business within the US 31 Overlay Zone.
Filed by Elizabeth Hobbs for Duke Realty Corporation.
Elizabeth Hobbs, attorney with Krieg, Devault appeared before the Committee representing Duke
Realty Corporation. There is a lack of conformity among the signs at this particular center located
at 12800 North Meridian Street. The Blue & Co. sign will stay as is. The Krieg, Devault sign will
be illuminated—both signs will have the same color and level of illumination. There will be a minor
difference in the signage font, however, the type face will match.
Liz Hobbs will discuss a Variance for the second sign with the Department tomorrow. The Blue
& Co. sign is 21 feet X 3 feet; the Krieg Devault sign is 33 feet X 3 feet. The applicant is willing to
reduce the amount of square footage if the signage calculations are over the allowable.
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Docket No. 162-03 ADLS Amend, Hamilton Crossing West,
Ron Houck moved for approval of
Building 3,
subject to the square footage of the signs meeting the size restrictions of the Ordinance,
APPROVED
seconded by Leo Dierckman, 6-0.
12. Docket No. 165-03 ADLS Amend (#03100017):
Meridian Tech Center- Penn Mark One
The applicant seeks approval for a new wall sign. The site is located at 11595 N Meridian
St, and the site is zoned B-6/Business within the US 31 Overlay Zone.
Filed by Steve Granner of Bose McKinney & Evans for Zeller Management Corporation.
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Steve Granner, Zoning Consultant with Bose McKinney & Evans, 600 East 96 Street,
Indianapolis, appeared before the Committee along with Mark Wolbrick of Zeller Management
Corp.
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The signage will face 116 Street; the lower case capitol letters C, K, and P on the sign will bring
the sign down to 89.6 square feet and within the allowable size. The sign will be positioned and
centered on the building. The building has three frontages. The applicant is requesting approval of
a sign on the north façade and also requests guidance for a sign package for the building as each
tenant changes.
Currently, One Penn Mark Plaza counts as a sign. The owner would like the flexibility on the
Meridian frontage to allow a second sign oriented towards US 31. The signage is ivory with bronze
returns, white neon lighting. The petitioner will submit a package proposal for the entire Center for
Committee review.
Docket No. 165-03 ADLS Amend, Meridian Tech Center
Ron Houck moved for approval of ,
Penn Mark One,
seconded by Nick Kestner and APPROVED 6-0.
13. Docket No. 156-03 ADLS Amend (#03100008), AutoZone
The applicant seeks an approval of revised building color. The site is located southeast of
Medical Dr and Range Line Rd.
The site is zoned B-8/Business.
Filed by Felix Ruiz of AutoZone.
Felix Ruiz of AutoZone appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. The building
was painted without knowledge or approval of the Department. Currently, the colors are orange
white, and red with black coping to the top. The backside of the building is not fully painted and
features light gray to the coping.
The Committee thoroughly discussed the original colors and what was initially approved for this
facility. The Department distributed photos of the initial colors. The following action was taken.
Wayne Wilson moved for approval of existing colors for Docket No. 156-03 ADLS Amend,
motion failed
AutoZone, seconded by Ron Houck. The 0-6.
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Note:
The Petitioner will return the building to its original colors—light/medium/dark gray with
Flat paint rather than Satin finish.
There being no further business to come before the Committee, the meeting was adjourned at 9:55
PM.
_____________________________
Dianna Knoll, Chairperson
______________________________
Ramona Hancock, Secretary
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