HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Sub 05-13-03
City of Carmel
CARMEL/CLAY PLAN COMMISSION
SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE
TUESDAY, MAY 13, 2003
MINUTES
The Subdivision Committee of the Carmel/Clay Plan Commission met in the Caucus Rooms of Carmel
City Hall on Tuesday, May 13, 2003.
Committee Members present: Marilyn Anderson; Dave Cremeans, chairperson; Wayne Haney; Maureen
Pearson; and Pat Rice, thereby establishing a quorum.
Mike Hollibaugh, Director of the Department of Community Services was in attendance as well as Jon
Dobosiewicz and Angie Butler. John Molitor, legal counsel, was also present.
The Subdivision Committee considered the following items:
Docket No. 164-02 Z; Riverview Medical Park (PUD
1. )
The applicant seeks to rezone 11.09 acres from S-1 Residential to a Planned Unit
Development (PUD) District. The site is zoned S-1 (Residential).
Filed by Charles D. Frankenberger of Nelson and Frankenberger for Plum Creek Partners,
LLC.
Charlie Frankenberger, 5212 Carrington Circle, Carmel appeared before the Committee
representing Plum Creek Partners. Brian Chandler of Plum Creek Partners was also in attendance.
Charlie Frankenberger gave a brief recap and review of changes included in the informational
packets. A change in zoning is being requested for approximately 11 acres at the signalized
th
intersection of 146 Street and Hazel Dell Parkway. The property would be developed for a
low-intensity, Riverview Medical Care Center, offices, and a single bank branch.
Immediately to the south of the site is the Hazel Dell Christian Church that has filed a letter of
support for the proposal. There is an abandoned house in the northwest corner of the real estate.
The real estate is divided into three parcels, Riverview is intending to occupy parcel 1 and they have
a contractual option on parcel 2. Approval is requested for ADLS/DP approval for parcel
1—everything except signage. The plans are more specific for parcel 1 than parcels 2 and 3.
Regarding parcels 2 and 3, the petitioner is asking for the change in zoning classification with the
agreement that the petitioner must return for ADLS and DP approval.
1
S:\\PlanCommission\\Minutes\\SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes\\2003may13
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417
Since December when this was first presented to the Plan Commission, there was a change in
circumstance. The City of Noblesville has approved the Noble West project on the north side of
th
146 Street. As described, Noble West is a massive, 681-acre, medical/retail/residential project that
will include 40 acres of medical complex, 40 acres of retail, including out-lots, and residential
varying from attached to detached single family homes of different density.
In comparison, Riverview Medical Park is 11 acres, the buildings will have one occupiable floor
with a basement for storage only. These buildings are under-stated residential-style buildings with
pitched roofs. The Riverview PUD does not permit retail.
The petitioner has submitted a drawing illustrating a 20,000 square foot office building on parcel 2
and the permitted square footage on parcel 2 has been reduced from 40,000 square feet to 30,000
square feet. A drawing was also submitted illustrating a possible 2,800 square foot bank branch on
parcel 3, where, under the PUD Ordinance, a maximum of 8,000 square feet is permitted. The total
permitted parcel coverage is only 16.5% or 77,000 square feet on 465,000 square feet. The
proposal is very low intensity.
Per the terms of the PUD Ordinance, all buildings must be designed using the same design
vocabulary, including building materials, colors, and proportions. When the petitioner returns for
approval of buildings on parcels 2 and 3, they must have a similar design and similar building
materials. Included in the PUD Ordinance is an additional provision that at least 70% of the building
materials, exclusive of roofs, doors, and windows, are required to be brick, block, or stone.
It is the petitioner’s belief that this proposal stands strongly and independently on its own merit and
that the soft, understated, heavily landscaped and buffered areas are considerate of the existing
residential development and provides much needed buffering and transitioning.
Jon Dobosiewicz offered the following comments on behalf of the Department. After discussion as
to whether or not this location is suitable for coordinated commercial, the Committee is to review
the language in the PUD to feel comfortable that what the City would be getting is the best possible
land use for development on this site.
Dave Cremeans asked if this proposal “crossed swords” with the Comprehensive Plan? Jon
Dobosiewicz responded that neighborhood commercial areas are not identified on the
Comprehensive Plan. You have to dig deeper than the Comp Plan and the map to investigate and
explore concepts behind neighborhood commercial. The Ordinance says they want to be at the
intersections or close to the intersections of major thoroughfares to provide access to the site.
Neighborhood commercial areas should be buffered from residential uses by a transition. The
proposed plan provides for open space and detention between Riverview and Ashmore Trace. The
two uses at the corner of the bank branch and the other building are to be of compatible designs with
the design of the ADLS being requested on the initial building. The bank branch building should
have the drive-thru reserved to the rear of the site and landscaped both along the Hazel Dell side and
the opposite side.
2
S:\\PlanCommission\\Minutes\\SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes\\2003may13
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417
Jon Dobosiewicz said the medical office itself is considered a special use under the residential
zoning. The petitioner could be appearing before the BZA today requesting approval for this
project as a permitted Special Use. The only thing not considered consistent with a permitted
Special Use is the bank branch. After the Church went in, the area was then pre-disposed; what is
th
left is an approximate 10-acre site along the 146 Street frontage. The logic is that uses that would
be considered permissible special uses under the ordinance that would otherwise go before the
Board of Zoning Appeals may be found acceptable along this frontage where, based on previous
actions and how development has occurred in the area, it is not a logical place for single family
residential. It is apparent that the developer has garnered support from the Church and adjacent
homeowners in Ashmore Trace.
Jon went on to say that the development approved by Noblesville is retail with commercial out-lots:
restaurants, bank, perhaps a gas station, although the gas station may have been excluded.
Pat Rice commented the petitioner has done a good job in designing the proposed development.
Dave Cremeans invited comments from the public—none was forthcoming.
According to Charlie Frankenberger, the petitioner has agreed to install landscaping on some of the
lots to further buffer from the residential area. Sample building materials were shown.
At this point, the Committee began a page-by-page review of the PUD Ordinance. Additional
informational booklets will be submitted to the Department on Thursday, May 15, 2003, for
inclusion with the Department Reports.
There was open discussion regarding the lighting, ballard lights, and the photo-metric chart
presented. The enclosure for the trash dumpster was discussed—the petitioner agreed to brick
materials and this was deemed to be compatible.
Marilyn Anderson moved to recommend approval of Docket No. 164-02 Z, Riverview Medical
Park PUD, to the full Plan Commission. The motion was seconded by Wayne Haney, and approved
5-0.
Docket No. 29-03 Z; Clarian North Hospital Campus PUD
2.
The applicant seeks to rezone a 107.367 acre property from B-3, B-6, and S-2 subject to the
US 31 Overlay Zone to a Planned Unit Development District. The site is located at the
th
northwest corner of US 31 and 116 Street.
Filed by Joseph M. Scimia of Baker and Daniels for Clarian Health Partners, Inc.
3. Docket No. 30-03 DP/ADLS; Clarian North Hospital
The applicant seeks Final Development Plan and Architectural Design, Lighting,
Landscaping & Signage approval for a hospital and medical office building. The 68.164 acre
th
site is located at the northwest corner of US 31 and 116 Street. There is a proposal filed
to rezone the site to a Planned Unit Development District.
Filed by Joseph M. Scimia of Baker and Daniels for Clarian Health Partners, Inc.
3
S:\\PlanCommission\\Minutes\\SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes\\2003may13
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417
Note: Items 2 and 3 were heard together.
Joe Scimia of Baker and Daniels appeared before the Committee representing Clarian Health
Partners. Members of the Committee should have received black-line drafts of the PUD and most
all items have been addressed at this time.
Mr. Scimia commented that there were two factors of prime concern: one was preserving residential
along Spring Mill, the other was extending retail along Spring Mill. The petitioner proposed to
th
make parcel 2C run the entire length of Spring Mill, from 116 Street to the northern property
line—except for the tree conservation area—and it would be limited to residential development.
Dave Cremeans invited members of the public to ask questions and express concerns regarding the
changes to the PUD.
Jerry Golden, resident of Springmill Place, thought residential development would be on the west
side of Illinois Street; on the east side would be commercial development.
Kathleen Lamb, also a resident of Springmill Place, said she had attended numerous meetings when
the Illinois Street expansion was being discussed. At that time, there were resolutions passed that
confirmed that the 20/20 Vision Comprehensive Plan was to be respected plus a buffer zone. It is
not a proper presumption that Springmill Road would become four lanes; the development of
Illinois Street is supposed to be taken into conjunction with Springmill Road. Part of the
Comprehensive Plan and the resolution supported by her neighborhood strives for nothing
commercial west of Illinois Street.
Judy Hagan, Springmill Place, addressed the Committee saying she had written the Springmill Road
Amendment many years ago when the corridor was under some commercial encroachment and it
has worked very well for the community in the interim. Ms. Hagan is concerned that this proposed
development is totally off-track with the Comprehensive Plan. Ms. Hagan commented that she
would like to see this proposal re-worked. If the entire property is going to be considered for a
rezone, and a PUD in particular, then the entire development needs to be flushed out. Also, with
due respect to the substantial tree cover on this property, it has always been contemplated that this
would remain and those development rights transferred to the open area and that unique and
beneficial development of residential would be compatible with the existing corridor. Ms. Hagan
was also concerned that this is the third hospital going in on the Meridian corridor and this proposal
may or may not be the best use for this site. The premiere corner in the corridor is this particular site
and it has been contemplated and very elaborately planned either PUD or rezone over the years as
something that would be a destination point—this has not yet happened. Ms. Hagan asked that this
proposal be returned for a lot more work as the last, major corner in the corridor. Again, the
understanding is that there was to be no commercial west of Illinois Street.
Jim Dillon, 507 Cornwall Court, Carmel 46032, said he had been “on line” to look at the
Comprehensive Plan and it is not at that location. Also, the land use maps are not on line. Why?
Everything today is a PUD and it is inappropriate to use that designation on this piece of property.
Jim Dillon expressed his concern about medical entities in the corridor that could be
“Not-for-Profit.” One of the secrets in Carmel is a commercial tax base in the corridor that is
4
S:\\PlanCommission\\Minutes\\SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes\\2003may13
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417
significant. If we erode that tax base, then our taxes will be higher than Westfield or Fishers. Jim
Dillon “clearly” wanted the Committee to understand that he and Ms. Hagan were sponsors of the
Springmill Road Amendment passed in 1988 and codified, Ordinance D-454, that is the law in this
community. The Comprehensive Plan was altered with that document and as it has been revised, the
last time in 1996, the land use map and the language reflect that. In Jim Dillon’s opinion, the areas
listed on all of the proposals to date, anything west of Illinois Street cannot be rezoned—that is to
be residential. The Commission’s job is to see that the City’s standards are met, not to make the
plan work for Clarian, the landowner, etc. Clarian probably does not want to buy all of the land, but
the seller probably wants them to do so. The Commission is not obligated to make this proposal
th
work for the applicant. If you commercialize any of this, there are four corners at 116 and
Springmill that are going to fall like dominos. Dr. John Pittman was told once before that he could
not commercialize his corner. I’m sure he would like to see this happen. Jim Dillon commented that
this proposal is not ready to move on; there is a lot of work to be done to make this acceptable.
Dr. John Pittman addressed the Committee with the following comments. At the time he tried to
rezone his land, the Comprehensive Plan said the north two-thirds was commercial and the south
one-third was transitional. Carmel could not say what transitional was, only to bring in a plan and
Carmel would tell him whether he was right or not. A lot of money and time was spent putting a
Comprehensive Plan together. It has been on the Thoroughfare Plan for several years that
Springmill Road was to be four lanes. Illinois Street is not meant to carry heavy traffic. Anyone that
has done any development along Springmill Road has had to dedicate right-of-way to make
Springmill Road four lanes. Springmill Road obviously needs to be four lanes and as the Clay West
area begins to develop out, it will have to be widened because there will be a tremendous amount
th
of traffic. The entire area will change tremendously, regardless of what happens at 116 and
Meridian. There will be so much traffic, everyone will be begging to get the roads widened. It seems
that there are a lot of misconceptions about the sacredness of the Comprehensive Plan and the
sacredness of Springmill Road that will preserve it as a “country road.” It isn’t a country road any
more—it is a major thoroughfare.
Jerry Golden had the following additional comments: There are other roads west of Springmill—is
every north/south road going to be four lanes? This will always carry some conflict. Springmill
Road had a good concept in terms of anticipating a two-lane road and a middle road, and with the
advent of Illinois Street, it is a good thing.
Joe Scimia touched on what the Comprehensive Plan actually does say and not what people thought
it said—there are definitely some misconceptions. The applicant is not trying to alter the
Comprehensive Plan. By state law, the Comprehensive Plan sets forth the general policies and
patterns of development—it is a road map. A body such as the Plan Commission is required to give
consideration to the Plan, but it doesn’t say that you should never depart from it or that it must be
followed in every circumstance. Even if it did, as times change, you must adjust for what occurs.
Mr. Scimia referred to the 1996 20/20 Vision document that references Springmill Road and this
piece of property at three locations. What it does say is that there are several areas that deserve
specific study and more detailed study because it is beyond the scope of the 20/20 Vision; one of
these areas is the US 31 Corridor Plan. There are 4 areas within the township where it has been
5
S:\\PlanCommission\\Minutes\\SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes\\2003may13
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417
concluded that special study is warranted. A detailed study was done of the US 31 Corridor to
address this property. The Plan says “The corridor should continue to differentiate itself as a
preferred location for corporate headquarters, general office, and institutional users.” Clarian is an
institutional user. Secondly, another function of the corridor is to enhance the State’s tax base and
to keep taxes reasonable and maintain the tax structure for Carmel residents. Clarian has an average
per square foot in excess of $200 per square foot. A general office complex built in this area is
roughly $90 per square foot on the high end. This project, because of its type of construction and
use, is almost two to three times that which you would find in an office corporate headquarters. The
only project that might be similar to this because of use is the ISO facility on Guilford Road and
Carmel Drive.
As the corridor continues to experience new development, the demand for additional services and
amenities to serve office employees in the corridor will expand. To provide these services, one of
the things suggested is a “node” of mixed-use development that includes destination uses and
services uses such as hotels and full service restaurants. It is appropriate within the corridor to have
limited retail to serve those developments. Again, a small commercial node is being proposed so as
not to provide a springboard into the development of the other corners.
Mr. Scimia further noted three potential overlay boundary expansions on the west side of the
corridor are recommended. This means the only district that includes commercial business uses
should be expanded to the west beyond Illinois Street. How do I know that? The very map that is
part of the 20/20 Vision shows the subject site overlay boundary expansion should go all the way to
Springmill on this property by moving commercial development all of the way to Springmill. This
proposal is specifically within the terms of the Comprehensive Plan. The Plan provides the details
th
and objectives for this property, specifically on the northwest quadrant of 116 Street and US 31.
This property is not yet flanked by residential development and it provides sufficient size and depth
to accommodate well-conceived, mixed-use development. It envisions the site should include
offices, hotels, retail, full-table restaurants, and a planned, residential community. So, a
well-conceived, residential community situated along the western Springmill Road, access from a
new arterial road, (Illinois Street) is within the vision and language of the plan for this property.
rd
The Thoroughfare Plan adopted October, 2001 lists Springmill from 103 Street to be a residential
parkway with a minimum right-of-way of 100 feet and a maximum lane lift of 4 lanes, 48 inches
each. The Thoroughfare Plan also lists Illinois Street as a four lane, primary parkway at 140 feet
wide. This proposal was not just “picked out of the air.” The applicant has gone to great lengths
to comply with the Comprehensive Plan and has addressed all of the development requirements and
objectives for this property. Any development within this corridor requires DP and ADLS
approval—detailed development plan and architectural design, lighting, landscaping and signage
approval by this Plan Commission. No development will occur in that west component until you go
into that, unless it is proposed single family housing.
The property is zoned B-6. The hospital could be built today with DP/ADLS approval from the
Plan Commission—it is a permitted use within the corridor.
Jon Dobosiewicz said the 20/20 Vision Comprehensive Plan as well as the 1997 study and
Thoroughfare Plan is a 20-year build-out. We have tried to plan enough right-of-way to
6
S:\\PlanCommission\\Minutes\\SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes\\2003may13
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417
accommodate streets with the limited resources available. We will make every effort to improve
Illinois Street across the extent of the corridor to provide access, presuming that the majority of
traffic substantiated by a traffic study is going to utilize the 31 corridor. We will do what we can to
discourage through traffic on Springmill. As US 31 and Illinois Street are improved, it is unlikely
that traffic will use Springmill as a major thoroughfare. The intersection improvements will build
capacity in Springmill and allow it to function in the future. There is an opportunity for everyone to
take both the Comprehensive Plan and the 1997 study and extract from it and take things out of
context. The one salient feature in this design that calls for an expansion of the 31 Overlay into this
entire parcel, Springmill Road to 31, is defined by one sentence: “This roadway (referring to Illinois
Street) will serve as a boulevard bisecting the office/hotel/specialty/
Retail component to the east and the high intensity residential uses to the west.” Comments from
the public relate to that issue and when the discussion was made of Illinois Street or the corridor
expanding, it was that Illinois Street creates a dividing line. The dividing line would be between
much, much more intense uses of office and a combination of components on this side of retail, with
a higher intensity residential use to the west. The Ordinance also calls for other things and
excellence in overall design. It is ultimately the Plan Commission’s responsibility to determine
whether this overall design fits within everything discussed from the 20/20 Vision Plan to the
Springmill Road Amendments to the 1997 study. Right now, the issue stands that anything other
than residential west of Illinois Street is unacceptable. The Commission would need to make a
determination and forward on to the Council.
Jon Dobosiewicz confirmed to the Committee that this development does not conform with every
aspect and every area of the Comprehensive Plan. It does, in many cases, and this is one area where
it does deviate from the Plan.
Marilyn Anderson asked about the Springmill Road Amendment. Judy Hagan clarified that the
Amendment passed in 1988 was an amendment to the then existing 1985 plan. The language and
context was moved forwarded into every land use map and was as a result of a retail issue.
Joe Scimia responded that the Comprehensive Plan was amended and superceded by today’s law
and that statement is not in the Plan.
Judy Hagan said the land use map is respective of the 1988 amendment. Joe Scimia is correct about
the expansion of development plan and ADLS requirement in the corridor, but that would not
change the land use. Under the old Comprehensive Plan, a development plan and ADLS only
required the first 600 feet of the corridor. When it was contemplated that Illinois Street, in order to
work, needed to be shifted farther west, then everything between 31 and Springmill was captured
and required a development plan.
Jon Dobosiewicz said that issues with regard to uses west of Illinois Street have come up at previous
meetings and have been drawn to the Committee’s attention by the public. In addition, in the
Department discussions with the petitioner, it has been indicated that “these are the rules.” The
areas were identified, including where Parkwood West was approved, and the amendment to the
1997 plan that opened the door. There was significant public debate at the Plan Commission and
City Council level on that issue, and the City Council made a decision for a plan to best serve the
community. In a nutshell, what the amendments to the Comp Plan to date have done is open up this
7
S:\\PlanCommission\\Minutes\\SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes\\2003may13
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417
100-acre parcel for an overall design that could be considered by the Plan Commission as well as the
City Council. What is does not do by letter is support commercial uses west of Illinois Street. It is
the petitioner’s charge to illustrate to the Plan Commission as well as the City Council that this plan
is the best plan for this parcel and to illustrate how it conforms to the requirements of the
Comprehensive Plan.
Joe Scimia responded that they have tried to put together a proposal that meets both objectives. In
talking about area 2C, the repeated comment was “We want to see that all residential.”
Pat Rice said this discussion should have been held at the beginning of the process, not after
adjustments were requested by the Committee and subsequently made by the applicant. The
Committee should have had information provided earlier.
Dave Cremeans commented that he did not think there has been any attempt at deception. At each
meeting, it has been said that they were working to come up with the very best plan for the
community—the plan may not be approved by the Commission—it could be approved by City
Council. Dave said he was led to believe that development could not happen west of Illinois Street,
therefore everything on Springmill would be a natural buffer.
Joe Scimia said the other point was not to set a precedent for the other three corners going
commercial. This is a large development and we have to make sure we service the area. Illinois
Street is a minimum of 510 feet west of US 31.
Dave Cremeans asked the applicant to look at everything west of Illinois Street as residential, to do
something to protect the tree buffer to the north of the subject site, and to continue to work with the
Department.
After a short recess to review the Illinois Street amendment that went to the City Council in
November 2001, the Committee continued with its review.
Dave Cremeans referred to Council Resolution No. CC-12-17-01-02, formerly Resolution
CC-11-05-01-07 as amended. This document defines Illinois Street as the line of demarcation.
Jon Dobosiewicz explained the major concern at the time the amendment was approved--the
location of Illinois Street (adjacent to Judy Hagan’s neighborhood, adjacent to Spring Lake Estates,
between Spring Lake and the Ritz Charles), and how Illinois Street would progress as far as
maturing into the ultimate road that it wants to be. All indications were that Illinois Street would
thth
not be constructed from 106 to 136 Streets in one bite—it was intended to serve uses as
developed along the corridor. It would not be constructed at one time as a four-lane cross-section.
There were talks about staging, contact sensitive design, etc. The two neighborhoods discussed at
that time, Spring Mill Place and Spring Lake Estates to the north were discussed at that time.
Future refinements were also discussed.
Joe Scimia said the applicant was willing to install the buffer on his property. The Comprehensive
Plan drew this area as potential expansion because the surrounding property isn’t developed. The
petitioner is asking for some relief. Additional buffers to the site are provided by the Frenzel
8
S:\\PlanCommission\\Minutes\\SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes\\2003may13
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417
property, the Hilbert property, and potentially, the Pittman property. The site does not abut any
property except Spring Lake and the standard for Spring Lake is 30 feet. If we were hearing the
hospital today and Illinois Street to Meridian today, it would be easier to digest, but wee would like
to see a plan for review.
Pat Rice commented the new proposal seemed to protect the Springmill Corridor in terms of
residential. Ms. Rice also asked for something more definitive and how this impacts the Springmill
Corridor if the Springmill Corridor is residential.
Maureen Pearson was uncomfortable with any of the commercial uses, especially the area referred
to in section N such as hotels, food services, restaurants, all types of retail.
Marilyn Anderson said she would like to see a better transition of residential.
Joe Scimia responded the Plan carved this area out as an acceptable place to develop. That’s why
this piece of property is different. Mr. Scimia said they could adjust lots for the townehomes to 200
feet in area 2C.
At this point, Jon Dobosiewicz cautioned the Committee that the Rules of Procedure are not
structured to allow open public dialogue at the Committee level. The dialogue should be between
the petitioner and the Committee members to address those concerns brought up at public hearing.
Pat Rice had questions regarding the colors on signage. Joe Scimia responded there are two colors:
gray and silver on a limestone base. The emergency sign is red.
Dave Cremeans was specific in his instructions that comments this evening should be limited to the
hospital only. Development between Illinois and Springmill is not being discussed this evening.
Pat Rice asked for clarification this evening on any approval recommendation from the Committee.
Joe Scimia responded that any recommendation for approval this evening would be for DP/ADLS
only.
Jon Dobosiewicz commented the petitioner desires to have a presumption on the hospital layout and
design. With that in hand, the petitioner could go back to the property owner saying “The whole
piece doesn’t work, but we have approval for the Development Plan of area 1A, and we are ready
to close on area 1A if you can bifurcate the property and sell us what is Illinois Street over to
Meridian.” Whatever happens between Illinois and Springmill may happen at some point in the
future, but if the hospital has approval of the DP/ADLS subject to zoning of area 1A, they would
have confidence in moving forward and negotiating with the property owner on making
modifications.
Joe Scimia said he really wanted to know that the issues are done with the hospital so that there is
no major issue that must be designed around. A lot of time has been spent on the PUD, but the only
real plan in front of the Committee is for the hospital.
9
S:\\PlanCommission\\Minutes\\SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes\\2003may13
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417
Maureen Pearson moved for a positive recommendation on Docket No. 30-03 DP/ADLS, Clarian
North Hospital, contingent upon appropriate zoning. The motion was seconded by Pat Rice and
Approved 5-0.
Docket No. 49-03 PP; Towne Pointe
4.
The applicant seeks approval of a Primary Plat for a 28-lot residential subdivision on 25.1±
acres. The site is located on the northeast corner of West 131st Street and Towne Road.
The site is zoned S-1/Residence - Estate.
The petitioner also seeks approval of the following
Subdivision Waiver for one street:
49-03a SWSCO 6.3.7
cul-de-sac length
Filed by the Elliot Wright Group, LLC.
Chuck Wright, 14349 Colby Court, Carmel, principal member of Elliott Wright Group appeared
before the Committee representing the applicant. There were three issues presented at public
hearing. Members of the public have been noticed in regard to the subdivision waiver and this can
now be discussed.
Jon Dobosiewicz confirmed the notice situation. The waiver is for the cul-de-sac on the south end
st
of the development and the Department is not in favor of another access point onto 131 Street.
Chuck Wright commented that he had spoken with Mark Hartman, at remonstrator at public
hearing, and Mr. Hartman is not interested in any process that would not allow him to sub-divide
his property in the future. There continues to be open dialogue.
Jon Dobosiewicz said he had received a letter from Kent Ward, County Surveyor, assuring the Plan
st
Commission the water issue from the subject site at 131 Street will be addressed. If water crosses
st
another property onto 131, the County cannot assure that a problem wouldn’t exist.
The rationale was discussed for not continuing the cul-de-sac. Jon Dobosiewicz said the
st
Department would like to limit driveway cuts onto 131 Street; there is only one proposed point of
st
access. It would be possible to drive through Brenwick’s subdivision to the east and get on 131
Street without going onto Towne Road, but there would be no advantage to that. A round-about
stth
is anticipated at 131 and Towne Road and also at 126 and Towne Road.
Pat Rice asked about stormwater into Elliot Creek. Jon Dobosiewicz said there is a
problem—because it is so flat—it is difficult to hold water. The reason it is dry detention on the site
plan is because they can’t “build a bathtub.” The applicant is working with Brenwick on the off-site
because they must provide discharge into the creek across their site. The applicant must pull water
and sanitary through Brenwick’s property, and they are working within the context of Brenwick’s
site plan to get to the subject site. The County Surveyor is hoping that will correct most of the
drainage problems at that corner, but it is not a guarantee because it is so flat.
Chuck Wright commented that when the northwest corner is developed, some of the water will go
that direction—a berm that has been built on the Guerro property has crushed the pipe that allows
some of the right-of-way water to flow to the west. Chuck Wright said he is doing his best to
minimize the situation.
10
S:\\PlanCommission\\Minutes\\SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes\\2003may13
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417
Jon Dobosiewicz said that as development occurs, the drainage will get better, not worse; that is
typical with stormwater.
Marilyn Anderson moved to forward Docket No. 49-03 PP, Towne Pointe and related zoning
waiver to the full Plan Commission with a positive recommendation. The motion was seconded by
Maureen Pearson and approved 4-0.
5. Docket No. 39-02 OA, 40-02 OA
Amendments to the Carmel/Clay Zoning Ordinance –
Use Table Adoption & Definitions Amendment (Text Amendments)
The petitioner seeks to make amendments to the structure of the Ordinance relating to uses, add
definitions and group all definitions into Chapter three of the Ordinance.
Filed by the Department of Community Services.
TABLED
The possibility of meeting an additional night was discussed, due to the length of the Agenda for the
th
May 20 meeting. Also, the possibility of beginning the meeting at 6:00 PM and dealing with Old
Business first was discussed. This will be finalized after polling the members.
There being no further business to come before the Committee, the meeting was adjourned at
9:30 PM.
______________________________
Dave Cremeans, Chairperson
______________________________
Ramona Hancock, Secretary
11
S:\\PlanCommission\\Minutes\\SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes\\2003may13
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417