HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes TAC 05-21-03
OFFICIAL MINUTES
CARMEL CLAY TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
May 21, 2003
REPRESENTING THE CITY OF CARMEL:
Bill Akers, Carmel Clay Communications Jim Heck, Hamilton County Highway
Angie Butler, Dept. of Community Services Gary Hoyt, Carmel Fire Dept., Station One
Jim Blanchard, Asst. Bldg. Commissioner Mike McBride, City Engineering
Scott Brewer, Dept. of Community Services John South, Hamilton County Soil & Water
Dean Groves, Cinergy Chuck Shupperd, Vectren Energy
John Dobosiewicz, Dept. of Community Service Attachment:
Dick Hill, City Engineering Attachment:
Via e-mail: Andy Kern, Clay Township Regional Waste District
Via e-mail: Sharon Prater, Panhandle Eastern Pipeline Company
Page 2. Eagle Ridge Subdivision, (Revised Primary Plat)
Page 8. Treesdale Subdivision (Replat)
Page 11. Coxhall Park & Garden (Development Plan)
Page 16. Hearthview Residential PUD (Rezone)
Page 24. College Park Baptist Church (Special Use Amendment)
Page 27. Carmel/Clay Schools - Forest Dale Elementary (Special Use Amendment)
Page 29. Day Furs (Building Addition)
Page 32. Taylor Trace, Lot 12; Furry Family (Use Variance)
Page 34. Ritz Charles (Amended Development Plan)
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Eagle Ridge Subdivision, (Revised Primary Plat)
Filed by David Sexton of Schneider Engineering
for Dura Development, Inc.
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONER:
Paul Shoopman, DURA BUILDERS
Craig H. Lintner, DURA BUILDERS
Dave Sexton, SCHNEIDER ENGINEERING
The site is located on the north side of West 116th Street, 1/4 mile east of US421. The site is zoned
S-1/Residence - Estate. Two months ago with the construction site for the first phase current
setback and revised the lot layout conforms more to what is out there. This new layout preserves the
existing lakes that are there, preserves the landscaping along the perimeters which is heavy also
includes some pathways.
NEAL: I have not seen any revised construction plans as soon as I do I will get comments
out to you. I think the only issue we had was the sewer crossing. Have you taken
care of that?
SEXTON: We will be filing our first set of construction plans and secondary plat the first
part of June.
GROVES: This is Ron Booher’s area. Is this the current updated site plan. Ron will be the
engineer working with you. We will need home sizes, auto cat, gas and electric.
SHOOPMAN: Gas available. When you are ready we will get gas to you.
BLANCHARD: Are there any buildings in need of removal?
SEXTON: Yes. A couple of garages at the eastern side of the main house.
BLANCHARD: We will need a demolition permit prior to any excavating. Also I noticed we
had a normal pool elevation but did not see the hundred year elevation for the lake.
All homes on the lake will be required to be above the elevation and there is normally
a twenty, twenty-five (20/25) feet lake easement
SEXTON: There is a 30 feet buffer for the normal pool at the back of the lots.
BLANCHARD: Just make sure the builder stays out of there. Also, will you be
using a model home?
SHOOPMAN: Yes, a model home center.
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BLANCHARD: Then you will need a temporary use application. With the number of
homes going in make sure DURA is on the master permitting before any permits are
issued. I will be glad to sit down with John Guyer or whomever. Also, we need to
make sure that all lots are identified and marked prior to permits going out.
SHOOPMAN: Is curb marking okay?
BLANCHARD: Yes.
BREWER: The change in design is very good. On the open space plan, designate which is
designed open space and which is naturalized and undisturbed. I did not receive
landscape plans and you do have buffer yard requirements.
SEXTON: Can we work something out on that? You are probably familiar with the site. We
would like to just plant entry wall treatments. There are rows and rows of plant
material and we do not want to inventory.
BREWER: and we can work something out. I need a tree preservation plan to satisfy the buffer
requirements. We can meet onsite for a walk thru or just provide a plan now that will
show preservation commitments, the buffer yard, entry planting etc…but we need to
get started on that.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Over all for landscaping, when they come in with the construction drawings
there will be a landscape set that shows, here is the preservation area, here is
existing, etc…
BREWER: and specify any plant material that is going in with a plant schedule.
HOYT: I will pass down my comment letter to you. This is a huge change from last time.
A couple of standard questions, will this be a gated community?
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SEXTON: One street is a private drive that will be gated. At 116 street the first two drives to
the east go back into an enclave area that is intended to created a gated community
there as well.
HOYT: When that happens I will get you some applications for a S.O.S. type of device on
the gate or CFD key switch/knox key switch for emergency access. Second, will
there be an amities building?
SEXTON: Yes, we have identified on the plat an area of amenities. No building plans or
anything like that.
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HOYT: If you do we will want to get a knox-box on that building. The sub-plans we
received there were no fire hydrant markings on it. You need to get me a set of
plans that show the layout of water distribution for the project.
SOUTH: A couple of comments. There is some concern about soil movement that has
occurred in the past. I suggest additional onsite investigation needs to be done
particularly for footings and the like. Unless it can be shown that there has not been
that much movement. I am making the comment known that there has been
significant dirt movement out there and it will be up to the Building Commissioner
or the person that builds the house to take liability if the foundation is not proper. Is
the dam and the pond a DNR structure?
SEXTON: No.
SOUTH: It looked like it was over twenty (20) feet tall.
SEXTON: Right, one is twenty (20) feet in height the other is one hundred (100) acre feet.
What we will show on the construction plans is the canal area between the two (2)
ponds. We are going to isolate that and create a water feature that spills over into
each of the ponds which isolates the ponds and eliminates the one hundred (100)
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acre feet rule. On the 116 street side there is a big hole enters into a pipe, the end
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of the pipe to the top is over twenty (20). That is part of the 116 street
improvements. We think we are out of the DNR jurisdiction in addition to that we
are soil testing/drilling that immediate area to make sure that the road will be in good
shape.
SOUTH: I am going to recommend that a letter be secured from DNR that it is not a DNR
permitted dam.
SEXTON: I do not know why. If it does not meet the criteria then it does not meet the
criteria and it was constructed that way so it would not fall under DNR
jurisdiction.
SOUTH: My understanding is the height of the dam is measured from the existing valley
beneath the crest to the crest elevation. Is that existing or what you are
proposing?
SEXTON: I have read through that rule. It is a little bit hazy. Where does it start and stop?
SOUTH: My concern is that looking at the future ownership of the pond which is the
residences out here. If indeed DNR does come out here and decides that it is a
permitted structure then at that point they will have to meet the requirements of a
permitted structure they may have significant cost to upgrade. I think it is only fair
that we make certain that the dam is or is not a permitted structure. If it is
not it should not be an issue to get a letter from the DNR saying so.
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SEXTON: Let the record reflect that we are not going to do that. The dam and lake have been
pre-approved by the Plan Commission prior to construction.
SOUTH: I understand, but the DNR permitting process and if it is a DNR structure
supercedes anything the Plan Commission would do.
SEXTON: Right all this was verified at the time when SCHEIDER was…..interruption
SOUTH: Right, I do not believe that the canal was actually in place when the Plan
Commission approved it. So at that time you had two (2) ponds at less than one
hundred (100) acre feet you certainly have one hundred (100) acre feet of water now.
So, technically right now it should be a DNR approved structure and it is not.
SHOOPMAN: Right, a DNR structure is based on the height and we met that requirement when
we submitted to the Plan Commission.
SOUTH: That is also based on the storage and your construction by creating a canal has
created a pond that has a hundred (100) acre storage. So right now you should
have a permit for it.
SEXTON: I have looked at the hundred (100) acre foot rule and with that canal running three
(3) to four (4) feet deep. Which means if either end should open up the whole pond
does not hold things up it is really close to that. We talked about doing a whole
survey of the bottom, but…(interruption),
SOUTH: My issue is I do not think the future residents should be stuck with potentially
expensive change if the dam needs to be approved and I do not know how expensive
it could be to meet their requirements. It could be substantial and I think it needs to
be investigated further. Then the only other question I have is do you currently have
existing shoreline erosion that needs to be addressed.
SEXTON: There may be a few pockets here or there but entire pond is lined with rift-raft. In the
plan there is a couple of areas where we altered the shoreline canal area for water
future …inaudible,
SOUTH: Okay. That is all I have.
AKERS: I need some more street names submitted to me. I have nine (9) already approved
for this previously. I came up with a total of fifteen (15) so I need those additional
names. So let me know where you want to place them on the plans so I can
address this again.
DOBOSIEWICZ: As I look at the plan for the path or trail around the perimeter of the site
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along 116 street and 121 street for the trials that are in common areas is to extend
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out into the trail that would be obviously a duplicated effort. There is a ten (10) feet
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asphalt path that you are required north along 116 street and 121 street. Just take
those paths and connect them with that asphalt path along there unless you want to
duplicate the path system through the common area.
SEXTON: Ten (10) feet path…(inaudible),
DOBOSIEWICZ: Ten (10) feet path is required in the right of way. I would say that you pull
this and connect it up to the ten (10) feet asphalt path. When you make the entrances
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on 116 street when you prepare a secondary plat for final approval. Again if the
right-of-way cannot be acquired north or south to pull in the improvements to
include the passing lane... It looks like that there are some areas that the County is
going to require a variance approval by the Plan Commissioners. The Plan
Commission has approved this new layout subject to final approval of the final
construction, secondary plat approval by the department and other review agencies.
In lieu of them moving forward from the previously approved primary plat. That
means that the plan commission to approve this as a secondary plat subject to our
final approval administratively on each individual section. Also, what is section one?
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SEXTON: The enclave area. The entrance on 116 Street and come east to the private drive to
the north amenities area. That will be in one and then the following month we will
extend and come back with another set of plans that extend that road all the way to
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21 Street to include this area over here (pointing to plan) the next two months you
will see everything except northwest quadrant.
JCD: Three separated product lines?
LINTNER: It depends on the timing.
HOYT: That west road will still connect in between? We are not going to build this road and
stop, wait for this next section build a little more, stop. That road is going to go in
all at one time correct?
LINTERN: We have two sets of drawings but the plan is to connect it all at once.
HOYT: Good, thank you.
BREWER: Do you have a comprehensive landscape plan? To clarify, I do not want to
piece-meal these sections. I want an overall landscape plan.
LINTNER: It is called section one (1) and two (2) but you want one for the whole site?
BREWER: Yes. Then when you file the second you will use the same drawing for that packet.
LINTNER: We anticipate for the perimeter we will not be able to add that
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many…(interruption),
DOBOSIEWICZ: It is not that you will not be able to meet it, you do meet it but you need to
show it. Make your plan like this (pointing to the plan) in the shaded areas give a
paragraph of what is already in place and what is intended. Do this for all areas,
common and otherwise.
BREWER: I will pass this down (copy of Ordinance) in Section 26.4:
Existing vegetation may be used to
achieve project buffering if vegetation
located on the subject parcel is of a
quantity and of state of health to achieve
buffering and it is proposed to be preserved
using accepted best management practices for
tree protection during construction.
Those are the two qualifiers.
DOBOSIEWICZ: In laymen terms, you will take care of the trees and Scott Brewer has a plan
that says you will take care of the trees.
LINTNER: Does that mean replacing the snow fence? That big, beautiful, thick, plastic orange
fencing?
BREWER: As long as it is a fencing that will stand up and the guys on the bulldozers know that
they cannot cross it
LINTNER: That trail surrounding the construction will be a large marketing tool for people
buying there. We want to make it as pleasing as we can.
DOBOSIEWICZ: During the construction of the subdivision there would be one measure
occurring, during construction of the homes would be another.
CHAPMAN: I sent a letter. We will need to get non-enforcements, estimates and bonds, and
there is a requirement as far as your outlet to notify the two property owners.
SEXTON: We are in contact with the downstream owners to see if they want to be included in
the downstream drain. Part of that notice to the downstream owners do we tell them
that the County is requesting we include them in the drain. If that is the case, that
drain is seventy-five (75) feet….
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CHAPMAN: We can reduce it down, the amount of force in it, when you come in with yours. So
it would have to be seventy-five (75) on their plat view. Then they can contact our
office and we will work with them
DOBOSIEWICZ: Is this drain regulated across this property?
CHAPMAN: No.
KERN: The plans received by the District need to be revised to show labeled sewer profiles
and manhole, lateral and bedding details which are in accordance with District
specifications. The plans also need to show the most recent version of the District
specifications. Revised plans need to be submitted. An IDEM permit will be required
and the submittal packet should be sent to the District for review. The District will
then submit the project to IDEM for permit approval. A pre-construction meeting
will need to be held before the construction of the proposed sanitary sewers.
Building permits should NOT be issued unless the District has issued connection
permits.
END.
Treesdale Subdivision
(Replat)
The applicant is proposing changes to a previously approved
Primary and Secondary Plat.
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Filed by Paul G. Reis of Drewry Simmons Pitts & Vornehm
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Mark Monroe, DREWERY SIMMONS PITS &VORNEHM
Adam DeHart, KEELER WEBB & ASSOCIATES
MONROE: Our only request to be heard by the Plan Commission in June is a request to convert
an existing street within the neighborhood from a public street to a private street. There is one
essentially loop road in the subdivision called Treesdale Circle which is currently platted as a public
street. Because of the desires of the homeowners within the subdivision we are now petitioning the
Plan Commission. Other than the dedication of that street there will be no other changes to the plat
or easements, lots, common area etc… Once we receive the approval of the Plan Commission we will
petition the Hamilton County Commissioners for their approval of the private streets.
NEAL: So far we have not received anything so we have no comments.
MONROE: We will get you copies.
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DOBOSIEWICZ: That approval by the County Commissioners would involve vacation of the
existing right-of-way. Would that happened under a separate request from the
secondary plat amendment. They filed a new secondary but they showed it as
a block. We they still need Plan Commission to take formal action?
NEAL: Yes.
DOBOSIEWICZ: In addition to our Public Hearing will there be another?
NEAL: Yes.
GROVES: I need a set of plans I show we have gas on Towne Road that will not be a
problem to bring it down to the subdivision.
CHAPMAN: We need a set of plans. Is this something we have looked at previously?
MONROE: Yes, the project section one is an existing…(interrupted),
DEHART: Streets are in, utilities are in, everything is in. They want to take their road and
public right-of-way and make it private. Easements area in place, the roads are
laid. Taking care to be vacated into drainage and utilities non-exclusive
easement that everybody’s facilities are already in there.
DOBOSIEWICZ: And the thirty thousand dollar ($30,000.00) stonewall is that in the
right-of-way?
NEAL: Yes.
BLANCHARD: No plans, no comments.
BREWER: No plans. When was this originally platted?
MONROE: The primary plat was approved in 2000 and the secondary was 2002. Lots one through
ten (1-10) already exist and the street in front of it.
HOYT: I typed up a letter but have decided to hold off and ask you are just making the street
changes from public to private? What about a temporary cul-de-sac?
DOBOSIEWICZ: The construction plans for the secondary identified a temporary cul-de-sac.
That will probably be one of the things we will be resolving
HOYT: Any type of gate to limit access.
MONROE: Yes one across Towne Road and that gate would likely have an access code for the
owners also we are planning to accommodate emergency access with a code or a box.
HOYT: What we would like to see is Knox makes a key switch that will mount together with
all the other device boxes. They also make another S.O.S. device that is activated by
the yelp siren on our truck. You will also need a battery backup for power outages. It
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is a three (3) hour backup that will still allow us access. This should be installed by
following the regulation guidelines. Call me and I can get you names of installers that
are frequently used like (KD) and they know what we like.
DEHART: To answer your question on the access at the end of the street part of that was handled
previously we did go back for a special use for the adjacent property and get a
subdivision variance waiver for the length of the street. The primary plat did have a
temporary cul-de-sac but after I got through the gyrations with the Hamilton County
Highway and the Owner wanted to rebuild the equine riding arena. We had redesign
the size and the shape of the road and maybe you could hammerhead turn around?
HOYT: Okay. I could live with that.
SOUTH: No comments.
AKERS: No comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ: As usual we are taking the position although it fits the public standards. The
department is in opposition to private streets. I think we need to get with the owners
to review and get suggestion on contingencies if the street becomes public. Those are
outlined in the ordinance section on bringing up to public standards. Other than that
there is some legitimacy and much concern because it is only servicing four (4) homes.
With being a private street, I know A. DeHart said that BZA approved the plan and
shame on them for letting that go because there is a preference on behalf of the Fire
Department. We will get dockets on this to get it on the plan commission agenda
under public hearings. We did request a letter from the county commissioners before
action is taken by the plan commission allowing the encroachment to occur in the time
frame before the Plan Commission made it in writing we wanted to get something
from the highway or the commissioners stating that Noblesville has recognized the
encroachment with enforcement action.
NEAL: Can we get that letter?
DOBOSIEWICZ: We need to recognize last fall they continued to build the wall and did not stop.
If it must be taken down then they need to take it down.
NEAL: Encroaching? They had already had that debate with the Fire Department.
DOBOSIEWICZ: We called them when they had the foundation poured. They did not attempt
to stop.
End
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Coxhall Park & Garden (Development Plan)
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The site is located at the northeast corner of 116 Street and Towne Road.
Filed by Paul Donica of Paul I. Cripe for Hamilton County Parks Department.
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Allen W. Patterson, HAMILTON COUNTY PARKS AND RECREATION
Paul Donica, PAUL I. CRIPE
DONICA: This is phase-one of the overall three-phase Coxhall Garden project. It is also tied
into a trailways project along with Hamilton County in July. Essentially we have a one
hundred and twenty-six (126) acre parcel that was granted to the county by Jesse Cox . We
are proposing to put a ten (10) acre lake with park amenities including a centerpiece
Amphitheater that will be under project two. We are going to start the initial mass grading
for that right now. This project will include mass grading the parking lot to the northeast a
connector trail to a children’s garden on the northeast corner of the property with restrooms
connecting the garden to the parking lot. We will be putting in all utilities now with the
exception of gas. We will add gas in the future for the Conservatory. I would also like to
mention that this project in going in conjunction with a 2-21 trailways project set for July.
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It is an asphalt trail project from 106 street to the entrance of Coxhall through Coxhall to
our northeast parking lot and we will be doing the mass grading for that in Coxhall. As it
stands now we will start construction in the next few months.
NEAL: After reviewing the plans, and TAC we will get out our comments but do not see any
major zones.
GROVES: Reviewing your plans. We will give you a call back.
SHUPPERD: We have gas at the first building let us know about the next phases.
CHAPMAN: I have not had a chance to review it. I will get you a letter on it and it looks like what
we talked about one month ago there should not be any major problems.
BLANCHARD: Are there any existing structures to be removed out there? Barn, silo,
garages, houses are all going to stay?
DONICA: No, we will be converting those houses to City sewers currently on septic.
BLANCHARD: Septic or fuel tanks that you are aware of?
DONICA: Septic is out there.
BLANCHARD: We will need to get a demolition permit for out there . We will also need a
phase-one environmental assessment report. Then there are three (3) homes
out there a one, two and three story? What is the one-story being used for?
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PATTERSON: They are all going to be residential.
BLANCHARD: No office or business?
PATTERSON: No.
BLANCHARD: What is the time frame for completion of all four phases?
DONICA: The phases we are in the middle of now we hope to complete by the end of next year.
Getting started this fall and completing as much as we can with completion of both
phases by the end of next year, 2004.
BLANCHARD: Before a permit will be issued we need to set up a pre-submittal meeting. I
will give you a copy of the pre-submittal requirements and we need to make
sure that everything is check off before you schedule that meeting with Gayle
Stahl. Okay, phase-one we are just putting in an Amphitheater and a
restroom?
DONICA: Phase-one is actually the mass grading, the utilities and the restroom.
BLANCHARD: And phase-two?
DONICA: Phase-two will encompass the connector bridge between the parking lot and the
Amphitheater, and the Amphitheater itself. Phase-three will be a connector road
over to Hoover Road. Phase-four is the trailways project.
BREWER: We talked on the phone with P. Donica. My main concern is the buffer yard
requirements and they will be required so we need to sit down and talk about exactly
where those phases are going. At least in the area perimeters where you are doing
active construction. I have a sheet I will pass this down to you and on those areas of
native vegetation we need tree protection details on the plan as well as tree
protection in place as construction is happening.
DONICA: We are incorporating that currently in our plans.
BREWER: Okay, and in that southern, southeast creek. I know you were going to take the
northern tip of that? And then…(interruption),
DONICA: We are still going to take a small piece of it mainly because we are putting in a
southeast pond and get to a swale to the existing channel we do not want to cross the
existing gas easement. We will pick up at the southern edge of that gas easement to
start our swale. We do have notes on the plans to minimize the demolition over in
that area and that area is somewhat sparse
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PATTERSON: It is the remnants of a Catalpa Grove and we want to protect that as much
as possible. Using it for educational purposes and so we will be out there
watching-like-a-hawk.
BREWER: Okay, then you should get some tree protection fencing up in the area you will not
be in and a plan of where that is going to be and the types of things you will do to
make the preservation happen.
DONICA: So on buffer yards, just so you know we have three hundred (300) feet in every
direction from where we will be doing construction and then obviously tying into
Towne Road.
SOUTH: What buffer requirements are out there S. Brewer?
BREWER: It is a “D” buffer yard which is five (5) shade, five (5) ornamentals and twenty-seven
(27) shrubs, per one hundred (100) feet. There is a lot already planted out there
especially around the residences almost down to Town Road. But along the farm
fields there is nothing there now. So we will need to do something along there. But
I am willing to work with you on where you are phasing things so you do not have
to plant it completely in the next six (6) months.
HOYT: I did not receive a set of plans so I will need a set. Probably the only set I will need
will be utility plan. I need to know where the water is flowing and if you have fire
hydrants stuck back in there. Probably we would look at one or two parking areas.
Get me a set of plans and I will get my comments to you.
DONCA: Okay.
SOUTH: I am currently working with P. Donica on the erosion control plan. Additional
perimeter plan inlet protection required. We are currently working on revised plans.
AKERS: No comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Is there a passing blister proposed on the west side on Towne Road at the
entrance?
DONICA: Not at this time.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Is that due to the lack of available right-of-way? When access is planned onto
Hoover Road we also look at the access at this location when access passing
blister improvements to the west in the future to Hoover Road street
widening the overlay along this grading of the swale so when you do your
landscaping plan you will need to be cognoscente of the right-of- way. I
understand that there has already been an area dedicated along the
intersection improvements? At this time, we request that you complete the
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dedication showing a thoroughfare plan with a seventy (70) feet half on 116
Street and Towne Road then this is the correct call out on Hoover Road is
forty (40) feet. So if you can prepare those legal descriptions just make the
dedication. It is going to go to the County Commissioners we just want to
see that placed now.
DONICA: All the way up?
DONICA: Actually the property will have seventy-five (75), forty (40) inside, five (5). I can tell
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you right now there is no intention of doing any thing along 116 Street because
those trees are close and we will take some out. The idea that we are pulling the
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pathway off is a good idea because if you miss 116 Street there is not any room
after that and you will have to hang out. We can live with that from here to here
(pointing at the plan,). I do have some concern along Hoover Road the ten (10) feet
asphalt path. I think it should be pulled back into the site perhaps around this side
(pointing to the plan), so people know to stay out of the road they can come into the
site. Is everything as far as driveways all curb?
DONICA: Yes
DOBOSIEWICZ: All lined parking spaces? Sizes?
DONICA: Yes, 9 x 20 parking.
DOBOSIEWICZ: I would just lobby for ten (10) feet space.
PATTERSON: Actually, the plan says that all parking stalls shall be 10 x 20 or 10 x 18
adjacent to sidewalks.
DONICA: We will go with 10 x 20.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Okay, good. I will need you to get me a legal description of the right-of–way.
Specifically getting people off the street. West Park needs better connection
with the park and school. There is a site gap along…(interruption),
DONICA/PATTERSON: Tying up to Laurel Lakes and filling in the gaps. Phase-two we will
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be replacing blacktop down to 106 Street up to Laurel Lakes over to West Park in
the next phase we have been waiting. We are not doing anything on the east side of
the road north of our entrance. But on the west side of the road we will go all the
way up to Laurel Lakes. Then land issues between our park and the Riley property
I understand that recently the Carmel Parks Department recently made an agreement
to acquire. That will cut lose the second phase of the project which then will be to
connect with West Park.
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DOBOSIEWICZ: I think it would be a good idea for all of us to sit down and take a look at the
overall prepared areas and subdivisions. I think it is something that would help
alleviate future unforeseen problems and point out potential opportunities to fill in
the gaps.
DONICA: One more comment on the trailways project. We passed your Ordinance to decrease
to eight (8) feet from ten (10) feet do we need to get a variance?
DOBOSIEWICZ: We will have to see where we are on that.
ATTACHMENT:
PRATER: Coxhall will need to show all four (4) pipelines and easement parcel belonging to
Panhandle Eastern. This should be reflected on each sheet that gas lines appear. Shell
Pipeline is a products line not natural gas. The engineer may want to clarify this with
Shell. The plan appears acceptable involving our facilities.
ATTACHMENT:
KERN: The plans received by the district need to be revised to show the water and storm
infrastructure in the sewer profiles. The manhole and bedding details need to be
revised in accordance with district specifications. The influent hub shown in the
grinder pump station is not the same size as the pipe shown in the sanitary plan and
profiles. Revised plans need to be submitted. An IDEM permit will be required and
the submittal packet should be sent tot eh district for review. The district will then
submit the project to IDEM for permit approval. A pre-construction meeting will
need to be held before the construction of the proposed sanitary sewers. Building
permits should NOT be issued unless the district has issued connection permits.
END
15
Hearthview Residential PUD (Rezone)
The applicant seeks to rezone a parcel from R-1/Residence to a PUD
(Planned Unit Development) District designation. The property is generally
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located at the southeast corner of 116 Street and the Monon Greenway.
Filed by Filed by Joseph M. Scimia of Baker and Daniels for Hearthview Residential.
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Christopher Reid, HEARTHVIEW RESIDENTIAL
Jim Curtis Jr., HEARTHVIEW RESIDENTIAL
Jim Thomas, HEARTHVIEW RESIDENTIAL
Larry Roland, SHEEHAN CONSTRUCTION
Joe Scimia, BAKER & DANIELS LAW FIRM
Roger Kilmer, BAKER & DANIELS LAW FIRM
ETAL.
THOMAS: This is a simple a small project. Twenty-eight (28) homes of consistence design,
attached condominium for-sale unit targeted at empty nesters, ground floor with
beneficial land use next to the Monon. We are reusing a large lot, single-family,
single parcel. As you might be aware, there is an odd looking brown house in various
states of construction and deconstruction over the past decade. That home is coming
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out as part of the 116 Street widening that is an out lot exception to our
development. Whether we can incorporate that into our development is a wait and
see status. Substantial amount of mature trees west, that we plan to retain for the
existing character as well as the secondary growth along the Monon trail.
Preliminary discussions with the City of Carmel about getting access to the east for
utility purposes. These would be wood-frame buildings, one story and one half (1.5)
stories with multiple living space on the ground floor with a couple of bedrooms and
a bathroom upstairs peeking through dormers. Wood- frame masonry buildings with
shingled roofs.
NEAL: Steve sent a letter to you that basically said that the streets are in Carmel’s
jurisdiction.
GROVES: I will need site plans on the CAD, easements, locations of transformers and the like.
SHUPPERD: Is this gas utilities or electric?
THOMAS: We are not clear yet.
SHUPPERT: Then the same for electric if you could layout location of the meter-set the
route for the main and service branch. What we need to adopt.
CHAPMAN: Is this going to be annex to the city?
DOBOSIEWICZ: It has been annexed or I believe it has been within the last thirty (30) days or
so.
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BLANCHARD: In the back there is an existing residence are there plans to convert that into
an office?
THOMAS: No.
BLANCHARD: Any abandoned wells or septic or fuel tanks on the property that you are
aware of?
THOMAS: Our phase-one environmental survey did not disclose anything like that.
BLANCHARD: We will need a phase –one environmental report prior to any permits being
issued. Who is the builder?
THOMAS: SHEEHAN CONSTRUCTION.
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ROWLAND: Most of you are familiar with SHEEHAN. We are building at 96 Street and
Township Line Road more substantial amount at Sycamore Courtyards.
BLANCHARD: What is the approximate cost?
THOMAS: Price point is two hundred thousand (200,000.00) and above.
BLANCHARD: So you will not have to submit several sets of construction drawings if
someone will sit down with me so we can get you started on your master permitting
process. Also we will need specific details on that two-hour firewall shown from the
floor to the roof. How about a construction trailer?
THOMAS: At start, yes.
BLANCHARD: We will need a temporary use application and will you set up for a model or
temporary sales office? If yes, then you need another temporary use for that. Before
any building permits are issued we will need to set up a pre-submittal meeting with
Gayle Stahl but before you schedule that we need to make sure you have approval
for all of your check list.
HILL/McBRIDE: Sorry we got our comments to you late. General information the right-of-
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way at 116 Street is Carmel’s. Are the streets to this development private?
KILMER: Yes.
HILL/McBRIDE: Water is the City of Carmel, sanitary sewers Clay Township Regional Waste;
storm is ours (City of Carmel). There are some Board of Works approvals
you will need for this including water availability. Commercial cut approval
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for the curb cut on 116 Street as well as the temporary construction
entrance. If you are planning irrigation in the right-of-way in this
17
development this also needs approval and requires additional water
availability. Included the requirements in the package we gave you. We are
going to require performance guarantees for some improvements,
specifically water mains, the entrance, storm sewers in the right-of-way,
street signs. We would like to see drainage calculations on this.
THOMAS: R. Kilmer has them.
KILMER: We have them.
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HILL/McBRIDE: Request additional 116 Street right-of-way associated with this project
rededicated as required in accordance with the thoroughfare plan.
KILMER: Do you know the width?
McBRIDE: Seventy (70) feet half.
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THOMAS: Greg had gotten plans for the 116 Street widening and do you think they show it
correctly on the their plans?
McBRIDE: They are showing the right-of-way as required for that roadway project and we
would be looking for additional right-of-way in accordance with the thoroughfare
plan. Which would be a one hundred and forty (140) feet total width. Looks like you
have about sixty (60) feet half right now and we would be looking for a seventy (70).
DOBOSIEWICZ: We are getting close to the pond and the Monon will be affixed with a bridge
or a tunnel structure and I do not know how that plays into additional right-of-way.
So we will work with you on how that will line up to accommodate both.
McBRIDE: So with the pond we will work with you but see if you can do seventy (70) feet.
SCIMIA: Seventy (70) feet from center line?
HILL: I would like to see the right-of-way line identified, labeled and dimensioned on all
sheets. If it is possible, identify the opposing driveways on the north side. Is the
existing residence on sewer and water?
THOMAS: Yes, we need to get that connected into our new studs.
HILL: Is this going to have a clubhouse or a pool.
SCIMIA: Not showing yet.
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HILL: I have included a right-of-way section for 116 Street in the handout. That portion
of your driveway within the right-of-way that needs to conform to the asphalt
18
pavement section. Does the median break indicated on these plans conform to the
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current 116 Street plan?
THOMAS: The design plan, yes.
HILL: There does not seem to be any easements on this plan. If this is public utilities did I
miss them?
SCIMIA: They are not showing yet. They will probably be common easements, private grant.
The intent was to get through TAC comments to secure realignments.
HILL: The fact of that series of private streets it is our assumption that interior
storm/drainage system is gong to be private?
THOMAS: Yes. We are not connecting the pipe in.
HILL: K. Weese has not cleared her final review of this…
McBRIDE: Once we get the right-of-way line established a minimum buffer between
right-of-way and retention pond. I will leave that up to K. Weese for what the
minimum should be. The storm sewer shown in the right-of-way going down to
Carmel Creek, is not existing right-of-way on that east property portion as
proposed?
KILMER: Yes.
McBRIDE: So, there will be an issue with timing?
KILMER: We had some discussion with K. Weese on that issue. She thought the acquision of
that right-of-way could be accomplished at a time that would enable this
development to proceed thus enabling this right-of-way to be donated not acquired.
McBRIDE: Typically we would require paths to be constructed in compliance with the current
transportation plan. It is in the 116th Street design to construct these paths but in the
past we worked with developer to help fund their portion as planned with the road
design. J Dobosiewicz has worked with similar issues for us. I will leave it to him for
further clarification.
BREWER: I have a couple of comments on the PUD landscaping section. The planting strip
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should be separate from utilities. I do not know how that would affect 116 Street.
They can cross it but they should not be layed parallel in the landscaping.
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SCIMIA: Parallel on 116 Street?
BREWER: In section “B” things included in the landscaping strip it says, “steps, terraces and
patio slabs” I did not see anything on the plan that suggested the buildings are going
to edge into the planting strip. If they are not going to be there then they should not
be included.
19
THOMAS: In the future, if individual residences want to expand those facilities that would be
an option …(interruption),
KILMER: It may also be an option if we can not co-locate utilities in planting strips then the
planting strips east of the Monon may encroach into those patio areas.
BREWER: We should find a balance. So you do not have utility strips, a row of tree space with
patios in between them. You need to look at it and refine it. Base plan for planting
strips point-one “C” says, “Five (5) conifers or berms at thirty-six (36) inches in
height.” I do not mind if you put in berms but it should not be trees or berms but
rather berms and trees on top. Then point-two says, “Planting strips should be equal
to” on the west side should be provided by the City of Carmel with the agreement
of acquision of right-of-way for the Monon trail. That is a Carmel Clay Parks issue
they actually own the trial so I think that should be specifically spelled out whatever
that agreement is.
SCIMIA: Please repeat the language on the deed that is what it is. We will spell it out. It is on
the plan.
BREWER: You are going to maintain at twelve (12) feet.
SCIMIA/THOMAS: Yes.
BREWER: I think it should be in the PUD as well.
SCIMIA: Okay
BREWER: On the east side planting strip, number three says, “Where existing trees cannot be
saved or there are no existing trees.” I think they should be bumped up three (3) and
three (3) maybe up to four (4) and four (4) making it heavier. You did not seem to
be taking out any trees along that border.
THOMAS: It was really just intended for this cap.
BREWER: Okay, point “D” you have sizes and those sizes do not match with most American
standard for nursery stock they are low. Shade trees should be ten (10) to twelve
(12) feet instead of six (6) and a branching height of less than one half and not more
than one third. Otherwise you get large trunks and little round balls on top which is
not healthy for the plant and on ornamental trees it should be five (5) feet five (5)
inches is the minimum but it should also be not less than one half and not more than
two thirds tree height for branching.
THOMAS: Is that to conform to the caliper.
BREWER: Yes, I will compile a letter. The comment on species selection language is a little
general and I want to specify. Landscaping material selected shall be appropriate to
local growing and climate conditions. Which is fine but want to add consideration to
species diversity as well as disease resistance. I will spell that out for you. Then in
point six it says, “The changes after approval alterations in landscaping may be
20
approved by the director in order to conform to site conditions.” I want to add to
that which means in this case, minor alterations. Usually that is enough to cover
anything. I have been specifically directed by plan commission directors to send back
to them any significant changes. I want to make sure that the PUD says, minor on it
so not to slow down the process.
HOYT: I will get you a letter. But I would like to discuss this first road that comes in and
runs and abuts the Monon. It is just a stub street and there is no way to turn a sixty (60) feet
aerial fire truck I would like to see a cul-de-sac or something like that. I did noticed these
are twenty (20) feet streets and since they are private streets which the concern is typically
that they will be hard to find especially if they are empty nesters. They will probably require
our services more than other areas. So we would like to see them become public streets. If
they remain private then we will request no parking signs posted all through this
development on both sides of the street. Otherwise it would be impossible to get through
those streets with vehicles on the streets. Will these buildings have sprinkler systems?
THOMAS: (shaking head to mean negative)…
HOYT: I guess the party wall will take care of any thing like that. I really do not have a
problem with the hammerhead areas but there is an area here for me to turn around. We are
concerned about this one hundred and eight-five (185) feet from the centerline to the edge
of the paved surface that is a long way to back a fire truck. ninety (90%) percent of all of our
accidents are from backing up. I did not measure driveway width to the edge of the street
but I have a feeling that campers/RVs will stick out into the street too.
THOMAS: Private covenants will require no parking of boats, RVs, motor homes, or
campers.
HOYT: Okay, and I understand you to say earlier, no amenities buildings?
THOMAS: That is correct.
SOUTH: I have a letter for you. A couple of items that need approval on the erosion control
plan. First, show your construction limits may seem obvious but make it clear. We need to
improve on our construction sequence, provide more detail there. Especially if the town
homes are going to be sequenced then I would suggest that we might not need to temporary
seed all the areas. I would want the towne homes to be temporary seeded if they are the last
to be built. So we have some idea of direction of construction so we can seed or not seed the
appropriate areas. Then the silt fenced shown at the north end of the project and along the
west border, the water shed exceeds the capacity of the silt fence, particularly at the north
end of the project. I suggest that we look at a sediment basin or a silt trap similar design for
that water basin. Certainly your proposed pond could be part of that requirement but it
needs to be clear on the plan, “what the sediment basin is, how large and what is to be
constructed.” We have had projects where we made the assumption the pond was to be built
and it does not due to soil conditions or wetness and so forth. Then begin work on other
21
parts of the site and build the pond later. If that is the case here we need at least the minimum
requirements for a sediment basin in place before the rest of construction gets started.
AKERS: Let the record reflect, I second G. Hoyt from the CFD that we too prefer public
streets to private. It makes addressing easier. If they ever become public we will
need two (2) street names inside the development. The southern part will be off that
main street that comes into the development.
THOMAS: Is there any reason we cannot name the streets and assign the addressing like other
streets and still keep it private.
AKERS: You can give the street name and then address it, north, south, east, west. The way
it should be done for public safety reasons we should have street names so it can be
found in the case of an emergency.
DOBOSIEWICZ: My suggestion R. Kilmer is that you take the two (2) buildings on the north,
south end and reorienting those buildings in a manner that is not along the Monon
that face along this side, logic being there are three (3) homes over here three (3)
homes two (2) units/homes and now we have eight (8) residences backing up against
our three (3) houses. Now if we modified or adjusted the homes now we have two
(2) units/homes that are directly adjacent to your three (3) lots opposed to across
here (pointing to plan) eight (8) homes. It may help alleviate their concern. You can
decide whether you want to do that before or after or at all. But the plan commission
may raise some concerns. You may want them to help make that decision. With
regard to the private street, is there any indication of gating?
THOMAS: (shaking his head to mean negative),
DOBOSIEWICZ: No? Typically the length of a cul-de-sac can exceed six hundred (600) feet.
Hearing the concerns of the CFD I would ask that you make attempts to provide adequate
turn around for their vehicles. Twenty-four (24) feet is standard drive isle in a parking lot,
of that twenty-four (24) feet drive isle services the number of units you may want to get that
bumped up to twenty-six (26) or twenty-eight (28) along this main segment that services
individual houses it does not necessarily need widening. You also might consider the south
end of the pond where the street intersects some additional type of turn around feature at
this location to help service those vehicles and for individuals that drive in by mistake. The
PUD looks clean. The language in a couple of areas may need some flexibility you may want
to look over that. I would provided an exhibit opposed to site drawings to the DOCS on an
eight and one half by eleven (8.5 x 11) exhibit, along with a full size drawing for the plan
commission something easy to get to. My last comment is on building elevations as a
marketing issue you are selling those from the front to the owners and the plan commission
is going be interested in what they look like from the Monon. As much detail needs to be
paid to the rear elevation on your plans which you may want to change the labeling “fire
place flue with a vent” this resembles a commercial building. Also, involving the all-siding
along the Monon side you may want to consider introducing brick into those elevations to
22
convey to the plan commission that you have considered much detail to all sides. Along the
Monon lines I would clarify your intent to use in relationship between your project and the
Monon. Is it, add a buffer here is the Monon. I suggest a sidewalk around the backside of the
units connecting up at either end of the Monon. Suggesting that you paid more attention
being next to the Monon.
HILL: Since these are private streets there are no sidewalks.
McBRIDE: With the pedestrian atmosphere there I do not know if you are using the Monon as
the reason for the changes there for your use. It might go a long way if you show
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some connectivity with your interior street utilizing the 116 path.
DOBOSIEWICZ: I was trying to led in that direction a sidewalk connect from the back doors
all those dressed up like a front door. I know you have the French doors on the
backside but do something different to dress up the back.
SHUPPERD: How are you planning on the metering for each building? Meter on each fire wall,
gang metering?
THOMAS: All transformers will be within (inaudible) feet of pavement parcels.
DOBOSIEWICZ: The other thing I would suggest is that you take some photos along the
Monon so you can get an idea of the existing transition there.
ATTACHMENT:
KERN: The plans received by the district need to be revised to show the water and storm
infrastructure in the seer profiles. The manhole and bedding details need to be revised in
accordance with district specifications. The influent hub shown in the grinder pump station
is not the same size as the pipe shown in the sanitary plan and profiles. Revised plans need
to be submitted. An IDEM permit will be required and the submittal packet should be sent
to the district for review. The district will then submit the project to IDEM for permit
approval. A pre-construction meeting will need to be held before the construction of the
proposed sanitary sewers. Building permits should NOT be issued unless the district has
issued connection permits.
End
23
College Park Baptist Church (Special Use Amendment)
The applicant seeks approval to expand an existing church facility. The site is located at 2606
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West 96 Street. The site is zoned S-1/Residence (Very Low Density).
Filed by Lawrence Kemper of Nelson & Frankenberger for College Park Baptist Church.
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Lawrence J. Kemper, NELSON & FRANKENBERGER
Dick Young, WOLFSON YOUNG CORPORATION
Chuck Hall, WOLFSON YOUNG CORPORATION
Matt Oman, THE SCHNEIDER CORPORATION
KEMPER: My name is Larry Kemper, I am an attorney and I practice law for NELSON &
FRANKENBERGER and we represent College Park Baptist Church. We are here today on
their request for a special use. The nature of the special use is for a church addition which is
necessary to accommodate their growth. Here with me this morning is Matt Oman from
SCHNEIDER ENGINEERING, Dick Young and Chuck Hall from WOLFSON YOUNG,
the architects.
GROVES: No plans, no comments.
SHUPPERD: I did not get a set of plans. Is our existing service to the church going to be
involved in relocation? That sheet I gave you needs to be filled out what existing equipment
you have and additional to see if we need a bigger meter-set and if you would send a set of
plans to the address there. We can have a pre-construction meeting and go through this.
CHAPMAN: I need to get you a comment letter. Some comments are that you will need
to schedule onsite meeting regarding our legal drain for any kind of improvements or ditch
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cleaning. Have you looked down stream for your connection on 96 Street. you will have to
look at that to see how it is functioning now and what changes are needed.
OMAN: No.
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CHAPMAN: You will need to look at that to make sure that off 96 Street is working like it
should or improvements that need to be done.
BLANCHARD: No plans. No comments.
HILL: No comments
BREWER: M. Oman and I talked and my main point is it is a lot of asphalt. I would like to work
to improve the landscaping areas to break that up. I know it has been through a couple of
revisions but I have some materials that I will pass down referencing parking lots. I would
like to see more rooting soil volume so that the trees that are planted there do not go for five
24
(5) years and begin to die back. Then you are constantly replacing them. You can possibly
help your drainage with storm water attenuation with the strategic planning of trees and
swales. That might go a long way in the amount of storm water you have to take into
account passing down stream that in time may pay for itself. On the landscaping plans I will
need the plants called out, specified. Then your tree preservation plan looks like you have
a utility easement on the back northwest corner. There should not be a utility easement in the
tree preservation area. If the utilities need servicing it negates the trees from being
preserved. Separate those areas. I would like to talk with you at a separate meeting and talk
about some options for the parking and the amount of landscaping we have. Put something
in that would benefit both the church and community and still complying with your
requirements. Is all this parking required? Or desired.
KEMPER: Required.
DOBOSIEWICZ: So you understand S. Brewer’s question. Is it required under the Ordinance
or is to satisfy the church growth.
OMAN: Per the Ordinance requirements for our size we will need 800 spaces. With the future
growth we will need two thousand (2000). It is not noted on the plan.
BREWER: I want to look at that pretty closely. Also is there an ability to preserve the trees that
are not being used for parking lot now. Can we preserve those trees in the area
where the future parking lot will go?
YOUNG: Yes. There are not that many trees anyway. That was farmland and fence lines with
scrubby stuff.
BREWER: But, that stuff provides a lot, like storm water attenuation, drainage buffering, shade
certain amount to esthetic value.
YOUNG: When we are finished here we will have considerably more trees than we do now.
BREWER: I still want to sit down and see what we can work on.
HOYT: No plans. I need a set.
SOUTH: I have compiled a review letter for the site. I will make a couple of comments about
the construction sequence paying particular attention to protecting the existing
outlet structure prior to construction starting. Also calling out the ponds and
sediment traps, sediment basins to the appropriate size so they get constructed first.
The only other thing is you will need a detail showing how you will protect your
culvert inlet type sections.
AKERS: No comments.
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DOBOSIEWICZ: The area along the southeast side you called that “no curb” is there a reason
for that?
OMAN: Sheet drainage into the retention.
DOBOSIEWICZ: They should curb that and provide turnouts. We will allow that without a
variance. Basically it is a reworking of the whole parking area and I do not find it
particularly acceptable that we just draw you end-cap islands and the issue is we are
eliminating it. Basically we are going to pave over the whole site with the exception
of what does not work for pavement. So coming back through and making these
islands it is going to be critical to the success of the church in seeking approval and
providing an area that will not look like the parking lot at Castleton Mall. I suggest
that they modify the design add the islands where they striped islands and enhance
the size of those islands. If that calls for a reduction of the parking places well that
is not such a bad thing. Were we provided with building elevations? I did not
remember seeing any signage either.
KILMER: Right now the ground sign is going to be relocated.
DOBOSIEWICZ: You will need to provide us the elevation on the ground sign. We read
though the comments from the Highway Department and additional concerns
supporting the closing of the two (2) existing entrances and eliminate the two (2)
existing cuts in close proximity to the intersection, in favor of the two (2) new
driveway cuts. With regard to those new driveways is there adequate right-of-way
to make to make the de-cell lane and passing blister improvements? Based on the
volume of traffic that is here if appropriate right-of-way cannot be acquired we are
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going to suggest that the approach be pulled all the way up to the north side of 96
Street were we can maintain that three (3) land and dedicated left. There are two
issues on Towne Road, one is you are directly adjacent to another lot. I assume by
the size of the lot that it may be platted. The lot far northeast corner of the site
presents two problems for you if you need to pull anything up to that side you will
have to work with them and I do not know if the right-of-way is available It should
be based on the size of those tracts. We will look to get additional information before
the packets go out so we can right-of-way that in a timely manner. Get comments to
the BZA on time. Does the detention that is provided on the site accommodate the
future parking and building area?
OMAN: I will look into that.
DOBOSIEWICZ: That is critical. We will allow this area around the back to remain uncurbed
what you might do is enter into a commitment with BZA that if it is not expanded
within a period of time you will curb it. We want to also make sure that we have
right-of-way dedicated for commitment for the thoroughfare plan which I think now
may need to dedicate additional right-of-way at the intersection. I do not know if the
lines on here fit the right-of-way but between the six (6) feet asphalt path and the
26
intersection. This intersection roundabout located here in the southeast corner
(pointing at the plan). Make sure on the detail sheet where the asphalt path crosses
the entrance to see there is an approach.
ATTACHMENTS:
KERN: The plans received by the district need to be revised to show the lateral and bedding
details in accordance with district specifications. The plans also need show the most
recent version of the district specifications for lateral connections. Note two (2) on
sheet C103 needs to be modified to state that Clay Township Regional Waste district
specifications apply for all sanitary sewers. Revised plans need to be submitted.
Building permits should NOT be issued unless the district has issued connections
permits.
End.
Carmel/Clay Schools - Forest Dale Elementary (Special Use Amendment)
The applicant seeks to establish three (3) temporary, portable classrooms.
The site is located at 10721 Lakeshore Drive West. The site is zoned S-2/Residence.
Filed by Allen J. Cradler of Fanning/Howey Associates for Carmel/Clay Schools.
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Ron Farrand, CARMEL CLAY SCHOOLS
Allen Cradler, FANNING HOWEY
CRADLER: Briefly out at Forest Dale Elementary School the project is already under
construction with approvals. The school needs to add three (3) portable bathrooms on the
south side of the building. They will be there for a year partly because of the current
construction and the shifting of students. They need that space. These will be leased portable
classrooms with setup with proper calibrations and tie-downs and removed at the end of the
construction period. No other effects on the plans, site plan or any other layouts. The
students will access back into the school.
GROVES: We are going to sub feed these from your existing main.
SHUPPERD: Is this all electric?
CRADLER: Yes.
CHAPMAN: No problems.
BLANCHARD: We will need a construction design lease from the State for the foundation.
Will the modulars have restrooms in them?
CRADLER: No, they will go back into the building for that.
27
BLANCHARD: Looking at the existing construction is it less than five hundred (500) feet to
the restrooms?
CRADLER: Yes.
BLANCHARD: Is there a second exit on these modulars you will need to get egress or is
there just one exit?
FARRAND/CRADLER: There is two (2).
BLANCHARD: I noticed you had the ramps going in there on the front but I could not tell…
CRADLER: There is two doors on the same side both will have ramps or stairs.
BLANCHARD: Before permit is issued you will need to set up a pre-submittal meeting with
Gayle Stahl. But before you schedule that make sure you have all the
approvals on this checklist.
HILL: No issues.
BREWER: No comments.
AKERS: No comments.
HOYT: Just a couple of comments A. Cradler. The fire alarm systems are interconnected to
the buildings so they will go off and the kids in the trailers will know it has been
activated in the building. Please identify each trailer with a number or letter one, two
& three, A, B & C. So we know what trailer to go to if someone is hurt.
SOUTH: Just passed a letter down to you. No comment.
END.
28
Day Furs (Building Addition)
The applicant seeks approval for a building addition and parking lot reconfiguration. The
site is located at 1361 South Range Line Road. The site is zoned B-8/Business.
Filed by William Armstrong of Guarantee Properties, LP.
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Ann, DAY FURS, INC.
J. Day, DAY FURS, INC.
Mary Day, DAY FURS, INC.
Kevin Day, DAY FURS, INC.
April Hensley, LEECH HENSLEY ARCHITECTS, INC.
William Armstrong, GUARENTEE PROPERTIES
My name is Bill Armstrong I am general partner with GUARENTEED PROPERTIES the owner
of the building. I would like April Hensley to describe the concept and then we can get directly to
the site plan.
HENSLEY: The idea was to tie down a little bit of square footage for an expansion for the
DAYS and at the same time upgrade the look of the building. They wanted a two-story
space with a one-story building with a flat roof was a fight. As we go through this process
we want to soften the look by giving it a more residential flare with an upscale feel to the
building. What we came up with was an addition to the front of about twenty (20) feet. And
to get two-story affect and to allow access to a second story. As we did that we look at with
interest at two-stories across the front and the back was one story so we opted to go ahead
and carry the roofline all the way back across the top of the existing building. So really what
you are going to see is a total change in the existing building as far as dimensions. Finishes
will be three-dimensional shingle with color range gray and taupe as well as split base and
along the sides with the existing sheeting and a hardy plank with a look of wood-lap siding
with longevity.
ARMSTRONG: The entrance is the same. A one-way traffic pattern around the building with
parking along the side. To accommodate the addition of nineteen hundred and seven (1907)
square feet is to create additional parking across the back. There will be twenty (20) parking
spaces required by the Ordinance and lighting twenty (20) spaces. The setback from Range
line Road is seventy (70) feet. The setback from here (pointing to plan) is seventy-five (75).
I believe all the other setbacks are required ten (10) feet here (pointing to plan) we meet that
by two (2) or three (3) feet. The parking space here we are requiring additional landscaping
for the new space we are creating this has always been a paved area and we are proposing
to retain it as such. Lighting provided (pointing to plan) this is a one hundred (100) watt
canopy lighting around the building. Fourteen (14) additional lights around the parking
space there are two (2) pole lights that provide lighting for the back area that is existing and
will remain. The DAY’S have not made a determination for signage yet. We are considering
a semi-circle above this window (referring to plan) or whether it will be a straight line across
that window. Wanting to make it an illuminated sign. I can tell you that the signage size
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meets the requirements of the City. As far as we know all of our plans meet the requirements
of the City. There is a utility pole in the back right here (pointing to plan) that satisfies a line
that Cinergy has along the back of this area. A thirty (30) feet easement in which we plan to
park. That utility pole has a guy wire that goes to the north and also has some lines that are
connected to some additional poles at KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN. In order to
accommodate all that was expected for the site it made the most sense to place a trash area
right here (pointing to the plan) in front of the utility pole. For several reasons number one
because it is a one-way traffic pattern it takes a lot of ease for the trash dumpster to be raised
into the trash truck and currently he dumps against the flow of traffic. This change will allow
him to dump and continue out with the flow of traffic. The construction of the dumpster is
secured in the ground and around the outside with steel pylon posts.
GROVES: My only other concern is the loading for the expansion. Also it is hard to tell we may
have to relocate gas service from around the corner or we may be able to just sway
it out of the way. We will need the existing load and your add on so we can size your
meter.
CHAPMAN: No comments.
BLANCHARD: The second floor area existing is that going to be showroom?
ARMSTRONG: Decorative dormers only.
HILL: I am sorry for getting my comments to you this morning. If we can go over some
concerns primarily infrastructure. Normally if an entrance or curb-cut is modified
you have to go back to the Board of Public Works. It does not appear that is the case
here. There may be additional sewer and water availability that will be a
determination by the utility department and if there is availability then you will need
to go to the Board for that availability. What I am talking about is connect fees due
to the expansion of the building. Where is the existing right-of-way on Range line
Road is it the seventy (70).
ARMSTRONG: Here (pointing to plan). The existing property line is here. (pointing to plan)
However, part of our parking is in the existing right-of-way line and we plan to
correct that with the new design. Originally a couple of feet were paved over the
existing right-of-way.
HILL: The drawing I looked at had a centerline from Range line of seventy (70) feet and it
does not coincide with your property line. So is the seventy (70) feet the actual
right-of-way line of Range line? Are you saying that the setback is seventy (70) feet
or the dedicated right-of-way?
ARMSTRONG: This is right here (pointing to the plan)…
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DOBOSIEWICZ: What you need to do is have you engineer verify the 45 foot half if not
dedicated the difference.
ARMSTRONG: Our survey shows that there is and I will provide that to you.
HILL: Anyway we would like that identified on the drawings and extend that all across the
property. If that seventy (70) feet line is the right-of-way line it appears that part of your new
curb is in the right-of-way and we would like that curb to be totally out of the right-of-way.
Identify the easements on the property. Is there a Hydraulic report drainage calc.
ARMSTRONG: No.
DOBOSIEWICZ: It is all hard surface.
HILL: We would like some idea where drainage off this surface is going. The only other thing I a
have is you are going to need a right-of-way permit and right-of-way bonding taking out the
exiting curb and moving the parking that will require a permit.
BREWER: No plans. So if you could get me an engineering set and then set up a meeting with
one of you on site.
HOYT: What is the square footage of the second floor expansion area? Under fifteen
hundred (1,500) square feet?
ARMSTRONG: Yes.
HOYT: We are requesting you get a knox box for the exterior of the building so we can
access the building after hours in an emergency. I cannot make you do that but it is
very advantages. Also the signage above the door we need to incorporate the
address somewhere on the front to be seen from the street. It probably is already
there but we want to make sure it stays there.
SOUTH: No comment.
AKERS: No comment.
DOBOSIEWICZ: We met with the petitioner last week and talked about areas that are in need
of revision to bring the property into compliance. We do need to verify the forty-five
(45) feet half along the frontage. With regard to the curbed area around the dumpster
is that another space north of the dumpster before the eighteen (18) feet call on the
space?
ARMSTRONG: No.
DOBOSIEWICZ: This line is what?
ARMSTRONG: Right now it is for the guy wire.
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DOBOSIEWICZ: Then this wants to be curbed (pointing to the plan) right here and here. So
pull that over and curb it up to the dumpster enclosure. Do you want me to
draw it on your plans?
ARMSTRONG: Okay.
DOBOSEIWICZ: The sign will go before the June 3, Special Studies committee.
BLANCHARD: I almost forgot before building permits can be issued we will need to have
a pre-submittal meeting and I have a check list of all the items that need to
be taken care of prior to that meeting.
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DOBOSIEWICZ: Do let your expectation be you can start digging June 4.
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ARMSTRONG: What about the 18 of June?
DOBOSIEWICZ: That is not in our control.
ARMSTRONG: Okay, thank you.
END.
Taylor Trace, Lot 12; Furry Family (Use Variance)
The applicant sees approval to establish a Veterinary Clinic.
The site is zoned S-1/Residence (Low Density).
Filed by Dr. Mary Wade.
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Mary Wade DVM, FURRY FAMILY
Rebecca St. Andre, FURRY FAMILY
My name is Dr. Mary Wade and this Rebecca St. Andre. What I am looking to do is open a
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Veterinary Clinic on 146 street. It is zoned residential and I have filed a Use Variance to approve
the clinic there. I would like to live there and have the clinic in the downstairs portion of the house.
GROVES: My only comment is that we have no power for your needs.
SHUPPERD: We have gas service to the house. I am not sure of your use. Do you have a
hot water heater? Okay then nothing there?
CHAMPMAN: No comment.
BLANCHARD: If the variances are approved according to the 97 Uniform Building Code:
“accessibility requirements” will be required like stairway width, handicap
ramps and a restroom. That can be done here locally.
HILL : I apologize for late comments. This site is annexed into the city? Or soon will be.
Your entrance on 146th street will be Hamilton County Highway department.
Water, storm and sewer, City of Carmel. I do not know if you have any Board of
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Works approvals I think they ran stubs to access this lot is this lot currently
connected to sewer and water?
WADE: No, but in our purchase agreement we will be hooked up to City services.
BLANCHARD: Excuse me, but if that is going to happen you will need to get a backflow
device on that water line.
WADE: Okay.
HILL: You will need to pay connection fees. I do not see any other bonding requirements.
J. Dobosiewicz you will need to advise on this, the conversion of this site. Normally
it needs to be paved and curbed.
DOBOSIEWICZ: This is more closely in line to the home occupation than it would the
conversion to business use at that location and with the BZA regarding this item that
is the way we need to approach it. We need a really defined set of standards that is
going to make sure that it is maintained. I do not think we want to go through the
process of paving and curbing and creating a parking lot and opening up the
commercial character of this. There are two parcels next to this along Carey and all
I need is someone coming in and arguing they cannot build a house there because
there is a business next door. I am really hesitant to support the UV for the
Veterinary Clinic. But I think we can take the home use part of the ordinance to
make some commitments on a limited nature. For example, no more than one
outside employee just to define that use. The other thing, the median cut that is
currently there is proposed to be closed that will go away. Not that it is a matter of
disclosure but the construction of this subdivision is eliminating that curb cut. Right
in and right out only into your driveway. They may or may not be a big concern to
you.
St. ANDRE: We are looking to keep the clinic very small with only one Doctor being Mary
and keep the home livable with minimal changes to the exterior.
DOBOSIEWICZ: I would use that section of the home occupation ordinance and the more you
can offer the BZA that closely aligns with those standards of home
occupation the better.
BREWER: The only question of the landscape plan is there are several circles for shade trees
they are not specifically marked. The only one listed is Maple. If you can please
mark each individual plant so there is no question. On the planting detail there are
two things I would like to see added. Where is says, “place soil ball slightly higher
than grade” it should say root flare not soil ball. And there should be a note that says
to remove any stakes and wires after one year.
HOYT: No concerns.
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SOUTH: No comments.
AKERS: No comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ: We are continuing to look as this but you can as I suggested take that section
of home occupation ordinance and create a set of commitments that would be
delivered to the commission to go along with your application. The better you can
define and reduce the potential for side effects the more successful.
NEAL: Steve Broermann will get a comment letter to you. The only thing we see happening
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is the driveway on 146 Street Jon Dobosiewicz said there is a median that will be
changed. I am sure that it will be changed. But because of the change of use you may
be made to get a new driveway permit which will change the classification from a
residential to a commercial driveway. You would not have to do anything to it. It is
just making sure everything is in order.
DOBOSIEWICZ: So the approach is in there with the project.
NEAL: It is based on use and if you are not a large animal vet than you should only have
passenger vehicles coming in and out.
Wade: That is correct.
END.
Ritz Charles (Amended Development Plan)
Petitioner seeks approval to construct an accessory building. The site is located at 12156
North Meridian Street. The site is zoned B-6/Business within the US 31 Overlay Zone.
Filed by E. Davis Coots of Coots Henke & Wheeler for Ritz Charles, Inc.
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
David Clidence, PAUL I CRIPE
David Coots, PAUL I CRIPE
For the record my name is Dave Coots and this is Dave Clidence with PAUL I CRIPE the
RITZ CHARLES wishes to construct a gathering villa/hall on the property immediately
south of the existing RITZ CHARLES where there is currently a single family residence. All
of the reports have been handed out. Those who had issues with the drainage received
comments back from Kent Ward’s office today. There will not be any changes to the
parking. No change to any of the onsite RITZ CHARLES configurations. The source of
water will be existing. Sewer is gong to hook into forced out the building to the onsite
sewer.
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CLIDENCE: Proposed outlet in the Spring Lakes section permit we are in that process. Second,
the project should be in compliance with all County Drain Ordinances. Not sure what
that means.
CHAPMAN: Your existing load proposed it did not looked liked it was reduced down. The
proposed is more than the existing?
CLIDENCE: Correct. The improvement surface area is increasing from what was before. Right
now it is just a house and a small building.
CHAPMAN: You have to reduce that down. I have a copy of the Ordinance. All of the allowable
discharge has to be reduced down for the developed ten (10) year rate.
CLIDENCE: That is right. We were going to use the drainage swale and then regulate what comes
off that .
CHAPMAN: Your report did not show your storage.
CLIDENCE: Your right it did not. We will show it on there.
DOBOSIEWICZ: I think that the problem is there is an issue or concern at the time that there
is a heavy tree line that was going to be retained. I am going to suggest that
you stay far away swale end or water feature as possible because what I
understand about the trees in that area change the drainage characteristic you
change the water and you kill the trees. Then you are going to upset the Plan
Commission.
CLIDENCE: I think we have enough room to do that and keep that line.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Based on the scale of the drawings, I do not see that. I want to see existing
trees and tree protection fencing. I am disappointed in the level of detail on
the drawings that we are being asked to grant our acceptance or approval. It
is my understanding at the time that this was submitted you said okay now
the building works so now we are going to spend the resources efforts to put
together a full blown construction drawings and if this is the level of detail
they assume to use for ...(interruption),
CLIDENCE: Those are not the drawings.
DOBOSIEWICZ: This will probably come back to TAC with a full blown set of construction
drawings so we can get the detail.
BLANCHARD: That existing home there is that going to be torn down? Moved somewhere?
CLIDENCE: Torn down.
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BLANCHARD: Okay, make sure we get a demolition permit. Any wells or septic out there?
COOTS: Before any earth moving can take place we need to get that demolition permit on file.
Also we will need a phase-one environmental report and what a bout a construction
trailer will you be utilizing one?
CLIDENCE: (inaudible),
BLANCHARD: All exits on the building will require walkway to a public way. And exit
discharge shall be eliminated. Then prior to any permits being released we will need
a pre-submittal meeting. I have a checklist and as soon as that is filled out you can
go ahead and schedule your pre-submittal with Gayle Stahl and get you started on
permits.
HILL: This is not in the City right now.
DOBOSIEWICZ: We have has an issue regarding Illinois Street and we are going to work
through those issues outside TAC. The thought being proposed addition a the site
may or may not warrant modification of the entire site to accommodate right-of-way
for Illinois street. We are trying to establish a nexus between five thousand (5,000)
square feet chapel and a lot of parking.
BREWER: You are in the US31 Overlay and will be subject to those landscaping and tree
preservation requirements. We need to see detail against those requirements now.
As soon as you can get a tree preservation landscape plan together I will glad to
make comments.
HOYT: I believe at one time I had another set of plans that showed a conceptual entrance off
Illinois Street. What is the square footage of the building you are looking to
construct?
CLIDENCE: Five thousand (5,000) square feet.
HOYT: If I remember right it is a two-story building with space upstairs.
CLIDENCE: Yes five hundred (500) square feet.
HOYT: Will you have a sprinkler system for fire suppression?
CLIDENCE: No.
HOYT: Okay, more than likely the building you are going to build will be viewed under the
International Building Code and International Fire Code the State of Indiana has just
adopted both of those physical building manuals. I do not know enough about them
to know if you are required to be sprinkled or not. I will look through there and see
I do not think it was required of the old codes but if you could get me a set of plans
construction type to get measurements to make my review.
AKERS: No.
DOBOSIEWICZ: We will look forward to receiving enhanced drawings of the site so we can
verify setbacks and design standards. D. Clidence I would suggest that you try and
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set up meeting with K. Weese and we will be involved in that to sit down and talk
about issues involving Illinois Street. I will need an executive determination from
M. Hollibaugh on some of these issues to see how we proceed.
GROVES: How are you planning to feed this construction? Are you going to sub feed from the
existing building or another power source?
CLIDANCE: Yes and no. Power requirement for this building are minimal.
SHUPPERD: Are you going to use gas or electricity? I will give you a contact person so you can
get us load requirements what you are going to need so we can size the meter.
ATTACHMENT:
KERN: The plans received by the District need to be revised to show the lateral and bedding
details in accordance with District specifications. The plans also need show the most
recent version of the District specifications for lateral connections. Revised plans
need to be submitted. Building permits should NOT be issued unless the District has
issued connection permits.
End.
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