HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes TAC 08-20-03
CARMEL CLAY
TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
MINUTES
August 20, 2003
REPRESENTING THE CITY OF CARMEL:
Bill Akers, Carmel Clay Communications
Angie Butler, Dept. of Community Services
Jim Blanchard, Asst. Bldg. Commissioner
Steve Broermann, Hamilton County Hwy
Jenny Chapman, Hamilton County Surveyors
John Dobosiewicz, DOCS
Jim Foster, Carmel Fire Dept., Station One
Dean Groves, Cinergy
Dick Hill, City Engineering
Mike McBride, City Engineering Attachments: Brewer
John South, Hamilton County Soil & Water Attachments: Prater
Chuck Shupperd, Vectren Energy
Via attachment: Scott Brewer, Urban Forestry Department of Community Services
Via e-mail: S.J. Prater, Panhandle Eastern Pipeline Co.
Shelburn Family Limited Trust (Rezone)
Page. 2
Ballentrae Subdivision (Secondary Plat)
Page. 4
Page. 9
Hayden Run, Section 3
(Secondary Plat & Construction Plans)
Townhomes at Range Line
Page. 10
(Primary Plat and Development Plan)
Walter's Rolling Acres- Plat Vacation
Page. 13
Docket No. 118-03 PV (#03080004)
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Shelburn Family Limited Trust (Rezone)
Filed by Steve Pittman.
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Steve Pittman- PITTMAN PARTNERS
Dennis Olmstead-STOEPPLWERTH
Neal Smith- PITTMAN PARTNERS
My name is Steve Pittman from PITTMAN PARTNERS INC here with me is Neal Smith also
with PITTMAN PARTNERS and Dennis Olmstead with Stoeppelwerth. In front of you is a
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conceptual layout of Burlingame. Seventy-seven (77) acres and located north of 131 on
Shelborn Road north and adjacent to the Carmel Street Fleet facility. We are looking to rezone
this property from S-1 to R-4 portion and a portion to R-2. If you look at the way we are
buffering this property with Ryland’s 3-story townhome, looking at the fronts of the buildings
rear loaded to the back with garages. West end of the property is Claybourn Estates adjacent to
the Carmel Fleet Street facility and we are also placing it at the east end of the property and
adjacent to Drees. Another key component is the Fields in the middle belonging to the Carmel
Dad’s Club. Which in our opinion is a jewel to the community to attract and help promote the
residential growth and the parks. Part of our development provides three (3) football fields and
that would be part of our open space by providing that ground with improvements. When you
look north that dotted line comes in at Shelborn Road and includes about a field and a quarter
and comes down to towne houses and comes back out to the east for the R-4 property. R-4
property is 78 townhomes on 12.53 acres for a total of 25.4% open space. As you move north the
area outside of that dotted line we are requesting R-2. R-2 zoned property we would be providing
220 lots on 63.49 acres with 15.61 acres open space for a total of 24.4%. Another item we are
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providing is the extension of 136 street, which will be thirty-six (36) feet from back of curb to
back of curb. Seventy (70) feet of right-of-way extending through this property and what we are
doing we are providing two different lot sizes. One forty-five (45) feet by one hundred and
twenty (120) and a fifty-five (55) feet by one hundred and twenty (120) size lot. The forty-fives
would be exclusively ranch homes marketed to “empty nesters” and the fifty-five marketed to
attract young families. The builder on this project is Ryland. This is a Rezone request so we have
not provided you with any technical information as of yet. We will also be submitting a traffic
study to J. Dobosiewicz.
GROVES: This is in Ron Booher’s area. He will need a hard copy, auto-cad and service
request.
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SHUPPERD: We have gas at 131 and Shelborn so we will just come up to the entrance and go
from there.
BLANCHARD: No comments.
LISTON: D. Olmstead is the engineer on this?
OLMSTEAD: Yes.
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LISTON: This falls in the Albert Stall and the J.W. Brendle watersheds. The Brendel has a
2.4 CSF allowable discharge rate. You will have to meet that. The storm system
will be regulated. Storm water detention will be based on the county’s 2/10 one
hundred standard. According to the maps it looks like the majority of the soils are
Brooks & Crosby. The county soil survey says that these types of soils a poor
potential for urban development because of the wetness not conducive to
dwellings with basements.
BROERMANN: No comment. When will they be annexed?
DOBOSIEWICZ: December 31, 2003 or February 28, 2004.
HOYT: No comments.
BUTLER: No comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Some general comments about the layout. The Plan Commission will
expect you to make commitments and tie things down before the planning stage.
For future development of the site that the access drive that services the
townhomes would not necessarily need to be a public street. By making the leg
that comes down at the south east corner terminate into a cul-de-sac then the drive
that services all the units that face east/west could be an alley.
OLMSTEAD: Then these units would not have a public road? Would that be a waiver?
PITTMAN: A variance for frontage off a public street.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Yes I think we would be better off providing a road that was not backed
up against the lots of Shelborn Park. I want to create a situation where we do not
have a road in front and behind for the homes in Shelborn Park. Is the intension to
have a sidewalk wrap around the front and back loaded. The fronts of these
buildings would face Shelborn?
PITTMANN: Yes.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Some of these angles intersect the collector street in particular the cul-de-
sac here and the stub that connects to Shelborn it seems to be accommodated. I
like the fact that there is not a second entrance on Shelborn. I would look at the
Schneider drawings for Thompson on the other side of the street so when we
move forward with construction plans we look at how that intersection works
along Shelborn.
OLMSTEAD: We have a digital location and we are lined up.
PITTMAN: Public notice goes out on Friday?
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DOBOSIEWICZ: Yes.
PITTMAN: This layout is different.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Will you provide us with the legal description?
PITTMAN: Yes.
BREWER: Did not receive any plans. Would like a set of updated plans as well as the
most recent landscaping plans.
PRATER: No comments.
….END…
Ballentrae Subdivision (Secondary Plat)
Filed by David Barnes of Weihe Engineers, Inc.
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Dave Barnes- WEIHE ENGINEERING
Dick Hoover- CIVIL DESIGNS
Jim Anderson-BALLANTRAE
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The site is located on the south side of 146 Street 1/4 mile west of Spring Mill Road. The site
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is zoned S-1/Residence (Very Low Intensity). It is an eleven (11) lot subdivision located on 146
Street.
GROVES: Ron Booher is your contact. Ron will need a hard copy of this, auto-cad, and
request for service. Pole line site plans to zero in on pole displacement. Number
of poles involved.
SHUPPERD: This project has been assigned in our office getting layout ready. We are working
on it.
BLANCHARD: Any existing buildings, wells, septic, fuel tanks on the property?
ANDERSON: There is an existing home out there. The well capped and the septic
pumped and pulled out in preparation for the demolition on the house.
BLANCHARD: I will give you the requirements for the house and you will need to contact
Morris Hensley (317-571-2673) and Barry McNulty (317-776-8500) prior
to getting a demolition permit with our department. Also we will need to
do a phase-one environmental report on the house for asbestos. If there is
asbestos you will need to use a professional asbestos removal contractor. I
have a number to contact the department of air management for a list of
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approved contractors (317-308-3103). No earth moving is to take place
until we do have a demolition permit on file. Lots 5 and 6 the lowest
opening must be two feet above the 200 hundred year flood elevation.
Will there be a construction trailer?
ANDERSON: Yes.
BLANCHARD: You will need to fill out a temporary use application. What about a model
home/sales office out there?
ANDERSON: Undecided.
BLANCHARD: If you do you will need to contact our department and we will get you a
temporary use application.
GROVES: On the east edge of the property there is a single-phase pole line tap
coming off the road going south is that hitting the house designated for
demolition?
ANDERSON: Yes.
GROVES: That line will be coming out and going back to the property.
MCBRIDE: We have a letter to send to you. We had some concerns about getting spot
shot at corners of lots and rear yard swales and grade breaks shown side yard and
rear yard swales shown. Would like to see better coordination with city and
county. One coordination issue is side yard swale easements with the exception of
lots 4 and 5 any side yard swales or drainage easements and we want to make sure
that the county surveyor’s office is okay with that. I am not familiar with what the
standard is on that. Also with the county highway show the limits of the county’s
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jurisdiction on 146 street right-of-way how far does that set back, is that the
beginning of the tapers of the corners of the right-of-way or the back of the tapers.
Identify the county’s right-of-way verses the city’s. D. Hill makes a comment
about coordination of the easement for water main extension between Ponds West
for the water main extension for future growth. Identify an emergency spillway on
the plans. The internal sidewalk on the plans makes references to being four (4)
feet wide we would like to see a five (5) feet minimum.
BARNS: I thought that was okayed by you and J. Dobosiewicz at the four (4) feet.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Is it asphalt or concrete?
ANDERSON: It is concrete.
DOBOSIEWICZ: The ordinance calls out five (5) feet concrete sidewalk.
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MCBRIDE: D. Hill makes a comment about the water plan to include pipe size and
material. The water main extension to the west property line of the
development the east off-site water main must connect to existing main at
Ponds West.
BARNS: Again J. Duffy, D. Hill and I have been working on the water line.
BROERMANN: All of our comments have been addressed. We just need to get the permit
before you start construction you can talk with Rob Chadwell about the
permit. He is the inspector in that area and will get you everything you
need.
HOYT: No letter. Is this a gated community?
ANDERSON: No.
HOYT: Is there plans for signage out front?
ANDERSON: Yes.
BUTLER: A letter was sent with our comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ: It appears on sheet number three (3) the so-called bar bell at the entrance
that is in the right-of-way and you will need Board of Works approval to
allow those signs in the right-of-way.
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ANDERSON: You just want a straight line across 146 street and dropping off those
legs?
BROERMANN: No, they will remain but under the jurisdiction of the city.
BARNS: And we will have to go through the Board of Works for the other?
DOBOSIEWICZ: Right, for the encroachment of the signs.
LISTON: No comments.
MCBRIDE: About the side yard swales are there any requirements for additional side yard
easements?
LISTON: We do have the legal drain that runs on two sides of it. We are requesting an
access point here. We know we are going to be cut off getting through the wooded
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area and we will work with D. Barns to get an area cleared here south of 146
street to get down to the drain. We will work with you for additional easements.
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MCBRIDE: The subsurface drain you show around back of six, seven, eight and nine, (6,7,8 &
9) what kind of pipe is that?
LISTON: Six inch (6”) double wall.
MCBRIDE: County surveyor’s standards will take precedence there.
LISTON: There was an issue with landscape material and I believe J. Chapman worked that
out with you. It has to be planted fifteen feet (15’) away from the under drain. The
drainage code says anything planted within a regulated drain easement will be at
risk.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Is the issue that people moving in will put in retaining walls and affect
drainage?
MCBRIDE: Yes and with the smaller lots it is harder to define and maintain the
swales. They just go away.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Since that is the case I suggest that you address modifications that that
might be made by the home owner in the future so they do not effect
drainage swales and that the homeowner cannot change the grade.
BARNS: Okay.
BREWER: Have spoken to David Barnes. The only issue outstanding is the detail for the path
that is not asphalt or concrete (that winds around the trees).
PRATER: No comments.
….END….
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Hayden Run, Section 3
(Secondary Plat & Construction Plans)
Filed by Edward E. Fleming of Stoeppelwerth & Associates, Inc. for Centex Homes.
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Ed Fleming-STEOPPELWERTH & ASSOCIATES
Todd Schaefer- CENTEX HOMES
My name is Ron Schaefer with Centex homes and we are here today to discuss Section Three of Hayden
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Run. The site is located on the south side of West 131 Street approximately one half mile west of Towne
sixteen (16) acres there is twenty-nine (29)
Road. The site is zoned S-1/Residential. Approximately
lots and all the utilities will be extended from Sections one and two.
GROVES: Hayden Run is Ron Booher’s area and talking with him he has no comments. We
will need hard copy, Auto-cad new service request called in.
SHAEFER: I sent Ron an e-mail service request has not been done yet. I have given him the
information he has requested the square feet of homes and I will finish that up this
week.
SHUPPERD: We will just come out of section two as standard procedure.
BLANCHARD: Any homes or existing wells or septics back here?
SHAEFER: No.
BLANCHARD: Okay, I noticed that the lots around the existing lake take an opening at the
two hundred (200) feet above elevation. If when applying for a building permit on
the plot plan state that the lowest opening will be above the two hundred (200)
year elevation that will help our inspectors tremendously. On lots 62 and 70 I
have noticed that you have “SD” for “special drainage”. I need some clarification
on that. On 70 you have a drainage easement but on 62 you do not.
SHAEFER: That is to let our field crew know that the points behind the pad need to be staked
so the swale would go around the house.
BLANCHARD: What about window wells?
FLEMING/SHAEFER: We will have to take a look at that again.
BLANCHARD: Will there be a model home, sales office?
FLEMING: No, the model home is in section one.
LISTON: Letter sent. The “special drainage” area show that on the plan but in reality will it
get constructed that way? We have had major problems getting the swales around
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houses. So please take another look at that and try to do the traditional half and
half. When Hayden Run came through the first time we were made aware of an
existing field tile that came from the Shelborn road area and we have never found
it. I think it is in Section 3, maybe where the sanitary crosses the county drain.
Ninety (90) feet north of that there is a 10 or 12 outlet into the ditch. I bet that is
where you will find the tile. I have pointed that out to Site & Sewer. If that is the
tile then we will have to follow it across the site and pick it up on the west side of
the site.
FLEMING: Okay.
MCBRIDE: We are going to defer comment to the county.
BROERMANN: Not finished reviewing this. I need the dimensions of street and the right-
of-way on the plan and the plat. East of lot 65 you show the path without a
ramp.
FLEMING: Put a ramp there?
BROERMANN: It makes sense to put one and if we do we will have to sign it since it is
mid-block.
SHAEFER: Cross walk?
DOBOSIEWICZ: I want one.
FLEMING/SHAEFER: Okay. What kind of signage do you want?
BROERMANN: Since it is a mid-block cross walk you will need a warning sign and one
that marks the cross.
HOYT: No comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Sidewalks are they at the corners. Are they directional intersections?
BROERMANN: That is one of my comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ: That they need to be directional? In the common area in the middle I
would like to see the pathway connect at the corner and have that crossing
at the corner. The subdivision to the south of you Wexly Chase they have
a pathway that comes up to your site so you need to stub to your south end
to pick that up with their pathway. We need to have all the approaches
concrete. Will this go under construction this fall?
SHAEFER: I do not see it happening.
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DOBOSIEWICZ: Has the trailer been moved from the lakes?
SHAEFER: No.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Is there a model home opening?
SHAEFER: The model home is under construction with a completion date at the end
of this month.
BREWER: I have spoken to Ed Fleming of Stoeppelwerth. There is a landscape plan
for the entire subdivision attached to the primary plot, but the street layout
of the secondary plat for Section 3 does not match that plan. Ed is going
to submit a landscape plan that conforms to Section 3 and matches the
requirements in the original plan. I will review those plans when I receive
them.
PRATER: No comments.
…END….
Townhomes at Range Line
(Primary Plat and Development Plan)
Filed by James J. Nelson of Nelson and Frankenberger for L.E. Investments, LLC.
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Larry Kemper – NELSON & FRANKENBERGER
Dave Sexton – SCHNEIDER CORP.
Steve
Shutz-I E INVESTMENTS
My name is Larry Kemper. I have a practice at the Law Firm of NELSON &
FRANKENBERGER representing I E INVESTMENTS requests regarding the property located
at the southwest corner of Range Line Road and Fourth Street Northwest in Carmel. The request
would allow the existing home located on the eastern half of the property to be renovated into an
office building and construction of four townhomes on the western half of the property. Joining
me this morning on behalf of I E INVESTMENTS are Steve Shutz and Dave Sexton of
SCHNEIDER CORP.
GROVES: I will address those questions tomorrow.
SHUPPERD: Is this electric or gas?
SHUTZ: Gas.
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BLANCHARD: The house that is being remodeled is in the Old Town Overlay. You will
need to get the appropriate approvals from the Director or J. Dobosiewicz.
Is there any construction going on right now.
SHUTZ: Yes, we did pull a demo permit and demo’d the stuff and it has been
signed off. We are going to replace windows and roof Friday. We will re-
roof and repaint it.
BLANCHARD: J. Dobosiewicz with the windows, will they need to get approvals before
they…
SHUTZ: They are going to be exactly as before, no changes.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Okay, it is still going through ADLS because of landscaping and parking
lot issues. That is all filed for. So go ahead with the painting and windows
if there are no changes.
BLANCHARD: On the townhomes we will need a specific detail on firewalls, rated walls
and method of fire stopping. Will there be a construction trailer?
SHUTS: No
BLANCHARD: Before a permit is issued we will need to setup a presubmittal meeting
with Gayle Stahl in our office. I have a copy letter of the requirements to
be filled out before setting up that meeting.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Will you be updating the HVAC?
SHUTS: Yes.
LISTON: This project affects the county regulated drain called the Morrow- Follet drain. It
is maintained by the City of Carmel but the county has jurisdiction over the
easement and whatever permits are required going into it or affecting it. So show
that drain on the plans because it has a seventy-five (75) feet easement associated
with it. The site will need to provide retention/detention on site probably by
upsizing pipes or underneath to underground storage.
SEXTON: No. The parking lot is so small.
LISTON: You can do it with a parking lot?
SEXTON: Yes.
LISTON: You will need to work with the city on that and our office and meet their
standards for that.
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SEXTON: We even spoke with K. Weese and she was for either one.
LISTON: You will need to submit a non-enforcement to reduce that easement down. My
suggestion would be to take it down to the existing right-of-way line. It will be a
third (1/3 ) into the townhomes property to the west.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Will we see a petition just across their lot?
LISTON: We will not need to see a petition for this because there is no reconstruction.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Just so that you reduce the easement width but just across their lot?
LISTON: Just across theirs. If someone goes north or south of them we will deal with that
then. This is just for that parcel. We will also need an outlet into the drain. Also it
looks like you are coming to serve the townhomes with a sanitary sewer and it
looks like it crosses under that existing arm that comes over so we will need a
utility crossing.
DOBOSIEWICZ: How big is that drain.
LISTON: Forty-two inch (42“).
MCBRIDE: We have a letter drafted by K. Weese and D. Hill we will get that to you. With
your sanitary and storm sewer connections. We need to identify any areas where
you are doing pavement cuts or those types of things in the streets so we are
aware of those. Existing service lines to the house are those going to be modified?
It will help if you identify those on the plan. We will need to see some detailed
drainage calcs showing your parking lot detention if that is what you plan to do.
The two (2) driveways exiting to the west onto First Avenue that looks like a
chair-back curve. I did not see any detail about that on the plans. Include that in
future drawings.
BROERMANN: No comments.
HOYT: I am still reviewing this. What type of office building use?
KEMPER: Single-use.
HOYT: What about height of the townhomes.
KEMPER: Two-story and not sprinkled.
BUTLER: No additional comments. I did send a BZA letter of comments to you.
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DOBOSIEWICZ: Dave we have gone over this a lot and I think we are getting where we
need to be. For the benefit of the committee we have five (5) applications
working through the process. The Plan Commission will meet in
September as a public hearing item. I would show them what is going on
in the rest of the site. You will be in a better position for BZA if you do.
Another comment would be to knock on doors and answer the questions of
the residence in the area. Scott Brewer has expressed interest in existing
work on the site there have been two or three mature trees that where not
protected during the demolition and now a walnut tree and another have
been damage beyond repair. He has photos. If you can get with S. Brewer
and the landscaping plan you can address the whole site. In regard to
lighting, are you going to light the parking area.
KEMPER: We did have an informational meeting last Thursday with adjacent owners
at my office only three (3) people showed up.
DOBOSIEWICZ: I would suggest that you make the extra effort to get with S.
Brewer on site.
PRATER: No Comments.
Walter's Rolling Acres- Plat Vacation
Docket No. 118-03 PV (#03080004)
Filed by Joe Downs for Clay Terrace Partners, LLC.
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Patrick Shea – LAUTH
Matt Adolay – WOODEN MCLAUGHLIN LLP
My name is Pat Shea for the LAUTH PROPERTY GROUP for the plat vacation of the
WALTER’S ROLLING ACRES part of the Clay Terrace Project. Plat vacation is coming now
property under control prior to vacating the plat. This area is located at the south end of the plat
project parcels that made up the old Carmel Motel will be used as primarily storm water
detention.
BLANCHARD: How many buildings do we have out there that need to be removed?
SHEA: None.
BLANCHARD: No wells, septics, fuel tanks?
SHEA: No.
BLANCHARD: What about construction trailers?
SHEA: No.
LISTON: No comments.
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MCBRIDE: No comments.
BROERMANN: No comments.
HOYT: No comments.
BUTLER: No comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ: This area is “clean up” as we did with the Walter’s addition lots “A” and
“B” further north where the right-of-way was modified and where the
retention pond is being constructed. If this area begins to grow then we
will need to vacate additional lots in the same subdivision where the
Nursery sets and on Circle Drive and perhaps in Walter’s Addition. I work
the expansion of the pond site that is not contained within the PUD
currently. If the area further expands we will need to go through and
modify the previously approved plan for Clay Terrace to expand the
detention to the south end.
SHAE: Will that be done administratively or back through the Plan Commission?
DOBOSIEWICZ: That would be a Public Hearing so it would go through the Plan
Commission.
PRATER: No comments.
BREWER: No comments.
END OF TRANSMISSION….
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