BA 4-70 Lighthouse Tabernacle signward of Zoning Appeals
February 23, 1970
The regular monthly meeting of the Board of Zoning Appeals was held on February 23, 1970.
All members were present except Egger and Hash. The Building Commissioner, Hnmer B. Gradl
was present. Minutes of the previous meeting were read and approved as read.
old Business
1A. 8:00 p.m. Public hearing on Docket No. BA 2-70, Special Exception Application of
Clark Oil 61 Refining Company, erection of service station at the S.W. corner of
3rd Strret and South Range Line Road, Carmel, Indiana, in B-3 zone -Ordinance Z-77
approved January 28, 1969. Clark Oil & Refining Co. neglected to properly advertise;
therfore John Kyle, attorney, requested that Docket No. BA 2-70 be given a new
hearing date. Docket No. BA 2-70,
23, 1970. public hearing to be held at 10:45 p.m. on March
2A. 8:30 p.m. Public hearing on Docket No. BA 1-70 Variance Application, relief of land
width and area on tract # 2 and relief of land area on tract # 3 located at the S.W.
corner of Westfield Blvd. and 111th St. Harry Elliott stated that he was required
to dedicate 501 on Westfield. Blvd. & ItOt on 111 th St. by the Carmel Thoroughfare
Plan. He would have a 64' house on a 93' lot-29' left for both side yards. Zoning
in this area calls for 100' lots. Public hearing closed at 8:35 p.m. Batte made
motion that Board should authorize Docket No. BA 1-70, variance application, relief
of land width & area on tract # 2 & relief of land area on tract # 3 located at the
S.W. corner of Westfield Blvd. & 111th St. Porteous seconded: Batte-aye, Haston-
aye, Prrteous-aye, Greenman -aye. Motion passed.
3A• 8:45 p.m. Public hearing on Docket No. BA 3-70 Variance application of Hay's Pharmacy
by Charles Hay, sign erection in Colonial Village Area. Robert Mc Nevin, attorney,
stated the sign was erected after denial by Board. Does not see where sign causes
any trouble where it is now. There, is similar sign at Morgan's Pharmacy at 96th &
college. West side of College has never been plotted. Allen Weihe unofficially
told Mc Nevin that the right of way was 16 2 '. Hay would agree to remove the sign
at his own expense if for any reason i. has to be moved for right of way reasons.
Batte sAid that if the Board approved this sign -then there would have to be automatic
approval of the other 5 signs in area. Public hearing closed at 9:13 p.m. Haston
made motion to table the variance application of Hay's Pharmacy by Charles Hay,
Docket No. BA 3-70 in order to get more information about right of way. Batte
seconded: Batte-aye, Haston-aye, Porteous -aye, Greenman -aye. Motion carried.
Greenman recommended that Building Commissioner contact Leroy New, Town Attorney,
to gt legal advise about having Marion Auman to get a survey made. Then they will
put it back on the agenda.
Mc Nevin said sign had been -turned off waiting for the Board's decision. Wondered
if� ght be turned on until a decision is made. No one objected to this.
4A. 9:15 p.m. Public hearing on Docket No. BA 4-70 Variance Application submitted by
.Lighthouse Tabernacle, erection of sign, 98th St. ;V U.S. 431 (Keystone) S.W. corner.
Tom Cartmel, attorney, stated that the original sign was different enough that this
sign is a new application. The new proposed sign is smaller, it is now 20' high,
and the revolving beacon has been discarded.
Robert Reilly -Federal Sign & Signal Co., explained that -the lighting doesn't cast
ber. . They have cut lighting 50%. It will not shine on any other property.
Carmel said the sign will now be 40' from right of way instead of 101. It is a
double faced sign.
Remy said they would turn lights off at 9:00 p.m.
Cartmel sated that they have scaled sign down enough & changed lighting so that
neighbors shouldn't object.
Richard Hardy, 9825 Pleasant Way, wanted to know how sign had been changed-particular-
ly:::about height. He was shown plans.
Karen Birsfield, 9801 Pleasnt Way, said sign design was not changed as it was expected,
to be.
Greenman read over the minutes from previous meetings pertaining to thi:, case & said
-that at -the Oct. 27, 1969 public hearing, which was the first, a number of remonstra,
tors were present & -that there were objections from Board concerning the sign, ligh,,,zq,
and _location.
Mrs. Richard Hardy asked if they can claii% -the beacon as a modification.
Rev. David 'Totman said revolving beacon was removed but still have beacon.
Lary Coulter, 9 75 Haverstick, objects to color scheme. Asked about color of sign R�
how far away can it be seen in daylight.
Reilly stated that it could be seen 4 mile away. He said it was a gold -trimmed sign
with black letters on a white background.
Mrs. Un. Totman said Federal Sign A Signal Co. would not design a sign with a color
scheme that is not compatiable to the building or neighborhood.
Karen Birshfield presented a petition from the Lakewood Gardens area containing 137
signatures, objecting to sign.
Reilly sated that the sign has 1,;2 the illumination as that of the Ford Sign.
Cartmel said -the State Highway Commission sees no saftey hazard.
Wilson Swank, Swank Son, Inc. stated Fordhas not bothered his building business,
so this sign certainly wont.
Robert Van Rheenen, 9897 Lakewood Drive, asked what percentage of congregation live
in the area.
Rev. David Totman said there are 108 members with 340 in attendence on Sundays -
approximately 1 3 of congregation reside in Hamilton Co.
Stanley Wes -ton, 5742 C . 21 St . St., said -the sign will help the deaf find the church
easily.
R.A.Sears, 9850 Pleasant Way, asked if Mr. Swank was a member of the church. Also asks
if deaf people can drive.
Swank confirmed the fact that he did attend the church. Also stated that sign wont
hurt property owners.
Batte asked why then there are so many people who live on Pleasnt Way who have signed
petition against sign.
Swank thinks church adds to value of nearby property*th,_t,
Jack Kindler, 9855 Pleasant Way, said sign is not � y�leasing.
Richard Hardy -read paragraph 6 from a letter written by James Stwalley which stated
that from Febru:'pry 8-15 cars leaving the church were counted & not many stayed in the
area.
Rev. David Totman said that 12 families from church live in area. He said that col.lab-
ing of autos leaving church doesn't mean much since many people might be going to sl;ore-
Iie also asked how do we know that the sign was not misrepresented to the people who
signed petition.
Hardy -told Rev. Totman he would like to see list of people who thought sign was rr[isre-
presented to them.
Karen Birsh_field stated that several people were indignant about the way they were
bullied by church people. She said each person signed petition at their own home.
Barbara Williams said church is a family church -many go to theBonanza or Huddle after
church -to eat, so can't go by count of cars & the direction in which they leave church'
She said many people are glad to have the light from the sign -thinks it has held down
breakins in area.
Jack Kindler doesn't -think sign is compatiable with church. He stated -that the objec""
ors live in area and have -to live with sign.
Mrs. Totman stated that church has only been -there 1 year, so hasn't had chance to
gain new members in area.
Robert S r�aettz, 2518 Colony Court, stated that other churches in area don't need this
kind of sign to advertise.
Rev. David Totman said neighbors want chopch to have traditional sign but the high
rate of speed used on Keystone demands the need for this type of sign. Rev. Totman
said they have tried to meet some of the regulations of the objectors -can't go any
further than this.
Mrs. Totman react from book about the largest Baptist church in the world and its Sign'
R.A. Sears sated that he would look in newspaper for the location of the church denom-
ination that he wanted. Asked about the private died covenant.
Cartmel stated that -the Board had nothing to do with the covenant.
Richard Williams stated_ that we all think differently. He said they feel the sign is
right & constitutionally they should have it. He stated that they have comprimised.
Board of Zoning Appeals
February 23, 1970
Beatrice Melleck, 825 , stated that -they believe that God wants this sign.
Mrs. Eddie Jones, 10410 Barmore Ave., is not a member of church but has been attend-
ing it for a year and loves the church. She said that with all the problems, such as
dope, that we all are faced with, the problem of this sign is ridicules. She thinks
we need more and bigger signs to advertise the churches.
Freda Baker 2526 Cardingdon Road, said we need to bring spiritual living ',.'clove
into our lives. The people need to be reached. Thinks God wants them to have sign.
Mrs. Richard Hardy said that the people should get back to deciding about sign -
we all go -to church and believe in God.
Swank said he had had petitions against him in another area that were unfounded.
Thinks anyone can get a petiton started.
Larr: Coulter.does not think Board or anyone should challenge the petitioners that signed
petition. Thinks sign is a traffic hazard. Doesn't like color of sign.
Greenman read letter from Clinton A. Venable, Chief of Division of Traffic dated Nov.5,
1969 which states he does not -think this will be a traffic hazard.
R.A.Sears stated that Hightiray Dept. doesn't realize hazard until facts & figur`
out. s point it
Mrs. Totman said that they had received a vicious unsigned letter that had been placed
in their mailbox. Public hearing closed at 11:05 p.m.
Batte made motion that Docket No. BA 4-70, Variance application by Lighthouse Tabernacle
be discussed at next meeting and that the Board make a final decision then is possible.
Haston seconded: Batte-nay, Haston-aye, Proteous-nay, Greenman -nay, Motion denied.
Bat -be made motion that Rocket No. BA 4-70, variance application by Lighthouse Tabernacle
be approved. Haston seconded: Batte-aye, Haston-aye, Porteous -nay, Greenman -aye.
Motion denied.
New Business
1 B. Davis Homes Inc. Variance application to erect single family home to be used, as
office on tract of land in the uC 2 zone, U.S. 31 'f Penn Road, 4.01.E acres of land,
shown shon on. -plot plan submitted . Hoard to receive, assi a I7ocke L NO. e setpublic
hearing date -Docket No. BA 5-70, public bearing to be held March. 23, 11170 p 8:00 p.m.
1 2B.
13B.
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158.
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Board -to receive variance application of Clyde T. Simmons, owner. Requests 22
family houses on Lot 8 D. Wilkinson Addition to Totm of Carmel, 3rd Street N.U. &
N. Range Line Road. Assign Docket No. Sc set public hearing date -Docket No.BA 6-70,
public hearing -to be held March 23, 1970 @ 8:30 p.m.
Board to receive from John H. Miller a letter requesting extension of mobile home
permit granted by Docket No. BA 1-64. Haston made motion that a one year extension
on Docket No. BA 1-64 be approved. Porteous seconded: Batte-aye, Haston-aye,
Porteous -aye, Greenman -aye. Motion carried.
Board to received from American Aggregates Corporation a letter requesting extension
of mobile home permit granted by Docket No. BA 2-68. Batte made motion to approve
the 1 year extension requested by American Aggregates Corporation. Haston seconded:
Batte-aye, Haston-aye, Porteous -aye, Greenman -aye. Motion carried.
Board to receive from Mrs. Donald Hall, 11_L1 1st. Ave. N.E., Carmel, Indiana, letter
requesting extension of one chair beauty shop operation in R-3 residential classifi-
cation granted by Docket No. BA 5-68. Haston made motion that the 1 year extension
requested by Mrs. Donald Hall be granted. Porteous seconded: Batte-aye, Haston-aye,
Porteous -aye, Greenman -aye. Motion carried.
Albert Lieberman, property at approximately 109th St. ?c College Ave., west side in
residential area, R-3 zone, use of property as a contractor's yard. Requested to
appear before the Board by Building Commissioner. Postponed until March 23, 1970.
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